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To: donh


"Not entirely undeserved?"

Are you serious?

Islamic expansionism was "no threat to Europe"??!!

have you heard of Spain?!

Islamic forces took over had conquered almost all of most of Southern and Central Iberia by 716! Remember, Islam had only started in the seventh century!

The Islamic Jihad threatened the Arab lands, Persia, China, India, Egypt, the Sudanese, the Berbers, the Franks (French), the Sicilians,the Turks (as you admit)all before it had even reached its third century of existence!

Quite frankly, we should not only thank the Crusaders, but Genghis Khan! Attacking the Mongols was the biigest mistake the jihadists made--- Khan's counter attack was far more effective than that of the Crusaders.


620 posted on 05/13/2006 7:40:31 AM PDT by mjolnir ("All great change in America begins at the dinner table.")
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To: mjolnir
Islamic forces took over had conquered almost all of most of Southern and Central Iberia by 716!

And had therefore been settled peacefully in the holy land for about 300 years at the time of the first crusade. Just how long do you think you are entitled to hold a grudge?

621 posted on 05/13/2006 7:42:38 AM PDT by donh
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To: mjolnir
Islamic expansionism was "no threat to Europe"??!!

That is correct. They were totally astonished that the Europeans could actually extend an army half a world away. Islam would not be a credible threat to any part of europe until about 300 years later, just as it had been 300 years before. it hadn't the resources or social/military framework to mount extensive campaigns far from its base. The crusades were mounted, and succeeded, in capturing the holy land--not, one may note, in eliminating a threat to european soveraignty--that is a construct of 20th century apologetics. The arab moslems were not persued into the desert--the holy land being captured, the story was over.

625 posted on 05/13/2006 7:50:54 AM PDT by donh
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To: mjolnir
The Islamic Jihad threatened the Arab lands, Persia, China, India, Egypt, the Sudanese, the Berbers, the Franks (French), the Sicilians,the Turks (as you admit)all before it had even reached its third century of existence!

"Power flows from the barrel of a gun."

780 posted on 05/13/2006 5:12:20 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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