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What Are Creationists Afraid Of?
The New Individualist ^ | 1/2006 | Ed Hudgins

Posted on 01/26/2006 1:47:10 PM PST by jennyp

...

Third, complexity does not imply “design.” One of Adam Smith’s most powerful insights, developed further by Friedrich Hayek, is that incredible complexity can emerge in society without a designer or planner, through “spontaneous order.” Hayek showed how in a free market the complex processes of producing and distributing goods and services to millions of individuals do not require socialist planners. Rather, individuals pursuing their own self-interest in a system governed by a few basic rules—property rights, voluntary exchange by contract—have produced all the vast riches of the Western world.

Many creationists who are on the political Right understand the logic of this insight with respect to economic complexity. Why, then, is it such a stretch for them to appreciate that the complexity we find in the physical world—the optic nerve, for example—can emerge over millions of years under the rule of natural laws that govern genetic mutations and the adaptability of life forms to changing environments? It is certainly curious that many conservative creationists do not appreciate that the same insights that show the futility of a state-designed economy also show the irrelevance of an “intelligently designed” universe.

...

Evolution: A Communist Plot?

Yet another fear causes creationists to reject the findings of science.

Many early proponents of science and evolution were on the political Left. For example, the Humanist Manifesto of 1933 affirmed support for evolution and the scientific approach. But its article fourteen stated: “The humanists are firmly convinced that existing acquisitive and profit-motivated society has shown itself to be inadequate and that a radical change in methods, controls, and motives must be instituted. A socialized and cooperative economic order must be established to the end that the equitable distribution of the means of life be possible.”

Subsequent humanist manifestos in 1973 and 2000 went lighter on the explicit socialism but still endorsed, along with a critical approach to knowledge, the kind of welfare-state democracy and internationalism rejected by conservatives. The unfortunate historical association of science and socialism is based in part on the erroneous conviction that if humans can use scientific knowledge to design machines and technology, why not an entire economy?

Further, many supporters of evolution were or appeared to be value-relativists or subjectivists. For example, Clarence Darrow, who defended Scopes in the “monkey trial” eight decades ago, also defended Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb. These two young amoralists pictured themselves as supermen above conventional morality; they decided to commit the perfect crime and killed a fourteen-year-old boy. Darrow offered the jury the standard liberal excuses for the atrocity. He argued that the killers were under the influence of Nietzschean philosophy, and that to give them the death penalty would hurt their surviving families. “I am pleading for life, understanding, charity, kindness, and the infinite mercy that considers all,” he said. “I am pleading that we overcome cruelty with kindness and hatred with love.” This is the sort of abrogation of personal responsibility, denial of moral culpability, and rejection of the principle of justice that offends religious conservatives—in fact, every moral individual, religious or atheist.

In addition, nearly all agnostics and atheists accept the validity of evolution. Creationists, as religious fundamentalists, therefore see evolution and atheism tied together to destroy the basis of morality. For one thing, evolution seems to erase the distinction between humans and animals. Animals are driven by instincts; they are not responsible for their actions. So we don’t blame cats for killing mice, lions for killing antelope, or orca whales for killing seals. It’s what they do. They follow instincts to satisfy urges to eat and procreate. But if human beings evolved from lower animals, then we might be merely animals—and so there would be no basis for morality. In which case, anything goes.

To religious fundamentalists, then, agnostics and atheists must be value-relativists and subjectivists. Whether they accept evolution because they reject a belief in God, or reject a belief in God because they accept evolution, is immaterial: the two beliefs are associated, just as are creationism and theism. By this view, the only firm basis for morality is the divine edicts of a god.

This reflects the creationists’ fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of morality.

Morality from Man’s Nature

We humans are what we are today regardless of whether we evolved, were created, or were intelligently designed. We have certain characteristics that define our nature.

We are Homo sapiens. Unlike lower animals, we have a rational capacity, an ability to fully, conceptually understand the world around us. We are self-conscious. We are the animal that knows—and knows that he knows. We do not survive automatically, by instinct, but must exercise the virtue of rationality. We must think. We must discover how to acquire food—through hunting or planting—how to make shelters, how to invent medicines. And to acquire such knowledge, we must adopt a rational methodology: science.

Furthermore, our thinking does not occur automatically. We have free will and must choose to think, to focus our minds, to be honest rather than to evade facts that make us uncomfortable—evolution, for example—because reality is what it is, whether we like it or acknowledge it or not.

But we humans do not exercise our minds and our wills for mere physical survival. We have a capacity for a joy and flourishing far beyond the mere sensual pleasures experienced by lower animals. Such happiness comes from planning our long-term goals, challenging ourselves, calling on the best within us, and achieving those goals—whether we seek to nurture a business to profitability or a child to adulthood, whether we seek to create a poem or a business plan, whether we seek to design a building or to lay the bricks for its foundation.

But our most important creation is our moral character, the habits and attitudes that govern our actions. A good character helps us to be happy, a bad one guarantees us misery. And what guides us in creating such a character? What tells us how we should deal with our fellow humans?

A code of values, derived from our nature and requirements as rational, responsible creatures possessing free will.

We need not fear that with evolution, or without a god, there is no basis for ethics. There is an objective basis for ethics, but it does not reside in the heavens. It arises from our own human nature and its objective requirements.

Creationists and advocates of intelligent design come to their beliefs in part through honest errors and in part from evasions of facts and close-minded dogmatism. But we should appreciate that one of their motivations might be a proper rejection of value-relativism, and a mistaken belief that acceptance of divine revelation is the only moral alternative.

If we can demonstrate to them that the basis for ethics lies in our nature as rational, volitional creatures, then perhaps we can also reassure them that men can indeed have morality—yet never fear to use that wondrous capacity which allows us to understand our own origins, the world around us, and the moral nature within us.

Edward Hudgins is the Executive Director of The Objectivist Center.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Heated Discussion; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: antitheists; atheist; biblethumpingnuts; creationism; creationisminadress; crevolist; ignoranceisstrength; ignorantfundies; intelligentdesign; keywordtrolls; liarsforthelord; matterjustappeared; monkeysrule; moremonkeyblather; objectivism; pavlovian; supertitiouskooks; universeanaccident
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To: Fester Chugabrew; Retain Mike; Dimensio
[Then please explain how this order [in a snowflake] arose from disordered water vapor by macro processes at less than .3 times the speed of light . . .]

Better yet, please explain how such a formation can take place apart from intelligence or design. Rates, temperatures - all physical considerations - taken into account. The only reason anyone is able to apprehend and quantify this phenomenon is because it is intelligible. How can something even be intelligible if intelligent design has little or nothing to do with what is observed?

We call a snowflake "natural," but I hardly think it is because empirical science has "determined" it as such. Empirical science may assume it as such, but there are still mysteries involved in this familiar scenario.

The short answer may very well be that "God did it." The long answer is the one science is supposed to tell us all, namely, how. When it gets down to the quantum level it could very well be holy cats.

Thanks, I enjoy your satirical pieces.

861 posted on 01/28/2006 3:43:07 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: K4Harty

What's the name of the book?


862 posted on 01/28/2006 3:43:09 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: PatrickHenry
Festival of Hemorrhoid-Free Slippery Characters placemarker
863 posted on 01/28/2006 3:49:55 PM PST by longshadow (FReeper #405, entering his ninth year of ignoring nitwits, nutcases, and recycled newbies)
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To: mlc9852
Creative Defense - Nicholas Cominellis, M.D.

ISBN# 0-89051-357-0

864 posted on 01/28/2006 3:54:43 PM PST by IllumiNaughtyByNature (There is an APB out for my tagline. If you find it, FReepmail me.)
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To: Giant Conservative
I honestly can't, or shall not try to answer that last question. Your questions are deep, profound and worth thinking about. Thank you, and I look forward to reading and receiving more and more of your post. I fled these threads a while back because it usually reverts to flaming and lack of any credible debate or constructive conversations. I think that posters such as yourself, Patrick Henry, MLC9853, JennyP and a few others that I can't think of off the top of my head, post good questions for both sides to consider. But, there are too many one-post wonders who make the thread easier to do without that with. IMO of course. I really don't think that anyones mind is going to be changed here, but too many people think that one or two posts will change that. It would seem that the polarization of topics such as this, illegal immigration and Israel are the hardest ones to read because of the personal emotions that are involved. Nonetheless, here I am again, looking for wonderful conversations and finding it.

FReepgards,

K4

865 posted on 01/28/2006 4:02:53 PM PST by IllumiNaughtyByNature (There is an APB out for my tagline. If you find it, FReepmail me.)
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To: K4Harty

Thanks


866 posted on 01/28/2006 4:04:41 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852

check your inbox.


867 posted on 01/28/2006 4:05:23 PM PST by IllumiNaughtyByNature (There is an APB out for my tagline. If you find it, FReepmail me.)
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To: TChris

Every living thing you see may be a transitional.

We just don't know which ones are transitioning to extinction, which to new forms, and which to continued existence in a comfortable and stable ecological niche.


868 posted on 01/28/2006 4:11:51 PM PST by From many - one.
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Episode of the Lazarus thread placemarker.


869 posted on 01/28/2006 4:20:35 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: From many - one.

I, for one, am transitioning into a new existence in the Great Cosmic Drain.


870 posted on 01/28/2006 4:21:56 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: PatrickHenry
Darn! I forgot all about the little fellas.

That's hardly Darwinian of you. Mine won't allow me to forget them.

871 posted on 01/28/2006 4:35:59 PM PST by Physicist
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To: whattajoke
Unless you're a retread? If so, what was your old screen name? And now entering the building, since Jan 2006, it's Creationist!

And your point is what? Because I have not been debating this great polemic on freerepublic until recently does not mean that I am not capable of debating or that I do not have the right to debate.

I have not been disrespectful to anyone yet you and others who claim to be conservative are very disrespectful. So when I read your's and some of your evolutionist supporters comments I come to the conclusion that your are either the liberals or in your 20's or both. Look up the definition of conservative , morals , family value, resistant to change are some of the virtues. Respect for others is definitely in there. Just because one does not agree on every aspect in the conservative forum does not give you or any right to be disrespectful in natural straight forward or implied. These are the tactics of the liberals, if you are not one then do not act like one. As a conservative we should be above their tactics and childish behavior.
872 posted on 01/28/2006 4:57:20 PM PST by Creationist (If the earth is old show me your proof. Salvation from the judgment of your sins is free.)
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To: Creationist
I have not been disrespectful to anyone yet you and others who claim to be conservative are very disrespectful.

When your first post in a long thread states "It's the Religion of Evolutionism/Darwinism," you should expect to be challenged.

873 posted on 01/28/2006 5:05:19 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Creationist

Don't worry. You'll get all the respect you deserve.


874 posted on 01/28/2006 5:09:50 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: jennyp
(That Darwin read Adam Smith, there can be little doubt.)

I'm not so sure about that myself: That Darwin read Smith in the original. But there is no doubt that Darwin was familiar in detail with Scottish economic philosophy generally, including Smith. We know for a fact that Darwin read, and was impressed by, Dugald Stewart’s On the Life and Writing of Adam Smith.

See, appropriately enough at Cafe Hayek, Smith and Darwin.

875 posted on 01/28/2006 5:18:27 PM PST by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: Creationist
Oh, and about your tagline...

Current estimates of the age of the earth are about 4.54 billion years.

See: The Fossil Record: Evolution or "Scientific Creation", by Clifford A. Cuffey (this link is to page 11, dealing with the age of the earth).

876 posted on 01/28/2006 5:24:02 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Buggman
I find the attacks of evolutionists on ID so perplexing and vexing; on the one hand, the evos will claim that evolution doesn't address the abiogenesis problem, while on the other, they'll treat ID as a competator.

People who believe that only science belongs in science classrooms tend to be supporters of mainstream science (e.g., evolution). It's not surprising, then, that these supporters of science attack the ID movement's attempts to bring nonscientific claims of an intelligent designer into science classrooms, despite the fact that ID's claims about the origin of life are entirely outside of evolution's scope, and therefore not a direct "competitor" to the theory in this regard.

Of course, the main thrust of ID is to further claim that the origin of species is somehow driven by the inscrutable designer, and that scientific examination is insufficient, which clearly is directly at odds with the theory of evolution.

And by the way,

Positing an alien lifeform as the Designer does not ultimately solve the question of origins, since one must then explain how alien life complex enough to evolve intellegence enough to design what we see in our cells could have arisen on its own.

Positing a being you call "God" also does not ultimately solve the question of origins for the same reason.
877 posted on 01/28/2006 5:31:27 PM PST by aNYCguy
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To: Coyoteman

There you go with those facts again.


878 posted on 01/28/2006 5:32:02 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: Coyoteman
Presumptions with assumptions give an answer that you want to here. You base your evidence on an old earth using information given to you by people who have lied to further their career. They also do not believe in God so they must disprove the Biblical age to justify their ungodly ways. They also have to give and old age for your evolution to work. Time the talisman of evolution. The stars your only redoubt. You may believe you are a scion of a monkey, lizard, fish, amoeba, rock, but I do not.

The geologic column in its final version consists of eleven basic layers. According to the evolutionary theory these layers were laid down over a period of millions of years. However, several problems arise when the geologic column is looked at through the theory of evolution. First, if the geologic column were to be compacted together, layer upon layer, its height would exceed 100 miles. This is a problem because one must consider the earth's crust is no greater than 30 miles thick and sedimentary rocks are never found exceeding 15 miles in depth. The Grand Canyon also presents a problem to the evolutionary geologic column because several sedimentary layers, such as the Cenozoic and Mesozoic strata, are absent. Such absences directly correspond with the many observations that the theorized transitional species between virtually every major group of animals is also missing. Missing parts of the column are generally explained on the basis of erosion and mountain building. However, the absence of erosion marks and the distinct lines of separation between each of the successive layers is compelling evidence that the layers were laid down quickly through the action of transporting waters. Another problem in the evolutionary theory is the inconsistency in strata succession form old strata to young In over 500 locations globally the succession of strata is inverted and younger strata is found lying beneath older strata. Although evolution cannot be useful in explaining such phenomenon, the Flood theory can be a very valid explanation. Because certain species of invertebrates were light weight and easily transportable, various representatives of their species would sometimes be transported and deposited at different stages of the flood. The discovery of fossils and footprints in the geologic column below levels in which they should be located is also a problem to the evolutionary geologic column. One of the most stunning evidences against the supposed vast ages of the earth and the geologic column is the presence of human footprints in layers dated older than the Quaternary Period. In addition to footprints, human fossils have also been found in areas of the geologic column which represent time periods supposedly millions of years prior to modern man. This argues quite favorably for the Creation model which states that all major life forms began at the same time and have reproduced after their own kind since the beginning. Finally, the discovery of polystrate fossil trees in coal seams is a major disruption in tile Evolutionary theory. According to evolution the formation of coal seams occurred over millions of years. However, the presence of fossilized trees in these coal beds indicate that they were formed very quickly since a tree could not survive for a million years while the surrounding vegetation solidified. [ FAQ ] www.creationevidence.org
879 posted on 01/28/2006 5:43:05 PM PST by Creationist (If the earth is old show me your proof. Salvation from the judgment of your sins is free.)
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To: FreeReign
Your opinion evolves -- species don't. God forbid!

Cute.

880 posted on 01/28/2006 5:44:22 PM PST by Jorge
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