Catholic Analysis: Mariology is Biblical

Vivificat! - A Catholic Blog of Commentary and Opinion ^ | 27 December 2005 | Teófilo

[Teófilo]

Folks, my blogger colleague, Oswald Sobrino of Catholic Analysis, has written a good essay regarding "Mariology," that is, the theological study and liturgical recognition of the place of Mary, the Mother of the Lord, the Theotokos, in the economy of salvation. It is entitled Mariology is Biblical. Here's an extract:

One of the great stumbling blocks for our Protestant brethren who are on the verge of crossing the Tiber, i.e., entering into full communion with the Catholic Church, is the great attention paid to the Mother of Jesus by Catholics. This hesitation is understandable: Protestantism is a reaction against Catholicism, and one of the reactions has been, historically, to exile the Mother of Jesus from salvation history. In recent times, some Protestants have sought to correct this strange exile of the Mother of God by looking back to the writings of the Church Fathers and to the early ecumenical councils, especially the fifth century Council of Ephesus. Yet, even Catholics can have a hard time responding to the insistent Protestant plea that to venerate Mary is to somehow detract from the one Mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

...

The crux of the matter is that Mary's extraordinary mediation as Mother of Jesus derives from and is included in the unique mediatorship of Christ himself. What we ask our Protestant brethren to consider prayerfully, and, yes, quite biblically, is that the mediatorship of Christ is inclusive and admits of and even insists upon our participation. If we participate, as Paul did, then certainly the one whom the ecumenical Council of Ephesus termed the "Mother of God" or "God-bearer" in 431 A.D. does also. Interestingly, today, even some conservative evangelical Protestant scholars openly refer to Mary as "Mother of God" based on the significance they ascribe to the Council of Ephesus. They are discovering the riches of the faith preserved for them through the centuries preceding the Reformation by none other than the Catholic Church.

- I urge all of you to read the entire piece at Catholic Analysis.

[Pyro7480]

"theokopos"

Don't you mean "theotokos"?

[Buggman]

Your interpretation of Scripture is what is at fault here, not Scripture itself.

If so, you have yet to demonstrate that from the Scripture.

To say Mary is only the Mother of His human "part" is to deny that the Word made Flesh.

To say Mary was the "Mother of God" without any qualifying clauses is to deny that God is Eternal and pre-existed her.

Words have consequences.

In any case, we're rather far afield of the actual issue at hand in debating the semantics of the Incarnation: Many Catholics (and I don't recall whether you've ever fallen into this trap) will say that they go to Mary and ask her to pray for them because, and I quote, "no good son would turn down his mother's request." In so doing, they actually do take the position that Jesus is still under Mary's authority as a son is to his mother's.

By calling Mary, "the Mother of God," are you agreeing with those Catholics? Or do you agree with Sha'ul (Paul) that now that Yeshua has died for our sins and been resurrected, "God has highly exalted Him, and has given Him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Yeshua every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Yeshua the Messiah is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Php. 2:9-11)?

That is, is Mary's relationship to Yeshua at the present time that of a mother to her son (putting her in authority, and He at her behest), or that of a servant to her Lord and a bride to her Bridegroom (both of which put her under His authority and at her behest)?

If the latter, then you must agree that there is outright heresy in the RCC, insofar as Catholic books written with the full approval of the Magisterium (e.g., the aforementioned Novena Prayers in Honor of Our Mother of Perpetual Help; see again post #31) and that Roman Catholics must purge such heresy from their midst before they start trying to bring the Protestants "home."

If the former, then it is you, not I, who is the heretic according to the Scripture, for you have given God's glory to another.

And since we have merely been going in circles for the last several posts, I'm moving on from this thread. Thank you for the debate, and have a blessed day.

[Buggman]

If one lined up all the implicit, nearly-explicit passages regarding veneration of Mary on one side of sheet of paper and all the passages implying the Trinity on the other side, I do think the Mary side of the sheet would be more impressive.

Go for it, then. I'm leaving this thread, but if you ping me back to such a list, I'll be happy to respond.

[Pyro7480]

If the former, then it is you, not I, who is the heretic according to the Scripture, for you have given God's glory to another.

That's the issue in the nutshell. Veneration of Mary DOES NOT detract from the glory of God. Period.

That said, I will follow your example and move on.

[Pyro7480]

Do we get points taken away for poor typing here?

LOL! Not so. :-)

[Buggman]

And one last post before I go, simply because this is too good to pass up:

She is not a mother only of His human nature but of His whole eternal person.

So are you saying

1) that Mary is as eternal as God, making her a Goddess in her own right or
2) that God is not really eternal, but began to exist at Jesus' conception?

Either way puts you in a state of complete heresy. Only if make some level of distinction between Yeshua's God-nature and Man-nature--while, of course, acknowledging that Yeshua was fully both--do you avoid this trap.

[annalex]

Mary gave birth to the entire Second Person of the Holy Trinity that pre-existed her. True or false?

[annalex]

I am saying the exact same thing the Council of Ephesus is saying. Motherhood is of a person, not of a nature. Wrap you mind around it.

[freedumb2003]

Where in any post did I accuse you by name of being anti-Catholic?

Me thinks the bman doth protest too much.

I am an active participoant on the Creavo threads -- loads of fun but I keep asbestos on hand.

[annalex]

gave birth to Theanthropos

Where do you get that nonsense? This is not what the Church teaches.

[annalex]

Ephesus did not mean

I can read. "Mother of God" does not mean "mother of theanthropos".

Show me where you got your "theathropos" teaching.