Intelligent Design case decided - Dover, Pennsylvania, School Board loses [Fox News Alert]

Fox News | 12/20/05

[snarks_when_bored]

Fox News alert a few minutes ago says the Dover School Board lost their bid to have Intelligent Design introduced into high school biology classes. The federal judge ruled that their case was based on the premise that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was incompatible with religion, and that this premise is false.

[metmom]

Thanks for lightening up the thread. That was funny. LOL

[metmom]

You can follow that on this thread:

"Judge: ACLU not 'reasonable Court whacks civil-liberties group, OKs Ten Commandments display"

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1544226/posts

[highball]

My opinion differs from the judge, and the judge unfortunately decided to stick his nose into the decision of local school boards.

I think that is an abuse of judicial power. He has no Constitutional right to do that, in my opinion. The determinative factor is that the Constitution does not give such powers to them.

The Constitution does not give powers of curriculum choices to the federal government. The Constitution specifically PROHIBITS the powers of the feds.

Yes, but the Constitution also gives federal judges the right to rule on the Constitutionality of laws. And this was a blatantly un-Constitutional action taken by the school board, so he had a responsibility to issue this opinion.

The school board was asking brought this on themselves. They're the ones that set back their agenda. There's no one to blame but those Board members.

They thought they could get cute and sneak around Constitutional prohibitions. They were wrong, they got caught trying, they lied about it, they got caught lying and they got smacked down for it. And they deserve everything they got in this ruling.

States and localities are restricted by the same Constitutional limits as the Feds. That means that the judge had jurisdiction, and a responsibility to rule on the facts of the case.

If you're upset that the judge ruled on the validity of the curriculum, take it up with the defence. That's exactly what the defendants were asking him to do by claiming that their religious agenda was "science." They didn't leave the judge any option but to rule on the mertits of that argument.

There's a reason the Discovery Institute wanted nothing to do with this case - they knew it was a loser from the start.

[metmom]

I thought in a democracy it was majority rules. I somehow can't quite see that as much as tyranny as opposed to a minority overruling a majority.

[freedumb2003]

I thought in a democracy it was majority rules. I somehow can't quite see that as much as tyranny as opposed to a minority overruling a majority.

Thank God we don't live in a Democracy. We live in a Representative Republic which has checks and balances to balance the rights of the minority with the will of the majority.

[highball]

Maybe we need a "Civics 101" ping list. ;-)

metmom, the Constitution prevents us from living in a "majority rules" society. We all have rights upon which the majority cannot infringe.

[metmom]

Yes, you're right. What I recall learning in school is democracy but what I learned homeschooling my kids was Representative Republic. I tend to fall back on older learning sometimes as it is more deeply ingrained even if it's wrong.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"But the judge should not have intruded himself into deciding curriculum."

So, as you see it then, citizens with complaints have no recourse in the US Courts, because if not there to settle a case, what's the function of Judges and Courts?

By the way, the Judge only confirmed with his Judgment what the voters of Dover made more than clear, when they booted out all eight members of the school board that mandated intelligent design to be taught in public school.

The people exercised their power, and the Courts backed them.

Which part of that is it that you don't agree with?

[Luis Gonzalez]

From you own post, the text of the resolution:

On October 18, 2004, the Defendant Dover Area School Board of Directors passed by a 6-3 vote the following resolution:

Students will be made aware of gaps/problems in Darwin’s theory and of other theories of evolution including, but not limited to, intelligent design.

Not could be, may be, or should be...WILL BE made aware.

That's a mandate to teach something that regardless of how you look at it, can be nothing but creationism in disguise.

Unless of course any proponent of intelligent design wants to stand up and make his or her case for creation being the work of a super being named Q, who one day will stand judgement of humanity at some place called Farpoint.

[onewhowatches]

the work of a super being named Q, who one day will stand judgement of humanity at some place called Farpoint.

Qdidit!

[Luis Gonzalez]

[onewhowatches]

Very good! And very quick too on the picture.

Q is one of my favorite characters in that series. I still watch old video tapes of his appearances.

[Virginia-American]

Prediction (which I posted on another thread):

In, say, a million years our descendants will not have wisdom teeth.

Justification: Very occasionally, even with modern dentistry available, people die from infections caused by improperly-placed wisdom teeth.

When this happens before they have children, their genes are not passed on.

Granted, it's a very slow (inefficient) kind of natural selection, but it is there.

The same prediction and justification works for the appendix, I believe. (Unless the appendix actually does something useful, so useful that it impacts mortality)

(I've seen claims that the appendix has some sort of immunological or e-coli reservoir function, but I've never seen anything that says people who have had appendectomies tend to die before passing on their genes)

[Virginia-American]

[orthogenetic theory] it's hard to keep up with all those parts of evolutionary theory which have become discredited.

It was discredited by Darwin in 1859.

Back then, it was known from the fossil record that some kind of evolution (so-called "Law of faunal succession") had occured, it was just that no-one had any idea how it worked. Orthogenetic theory and Lamarckism proposed ad hoc explanations without any mechanism.

Then Darwin made the simple observation that the same mechanism that allows pigeon breeders to breed new breeds of pigeon is also at work in the natural world. He hypothesised that this accounts for all the diversity of life on earth.

He elevated this hypothesis to a theory by supporting it with lots of evidence, and by giving examples of how to falsify it.

Perhaps someone could post a link to a nice summary... Here's one

[freedumb2003]

I tend to fall back on older learning sometimes as it is more deeply ingrained even if it's wrong.

Catholic school? ;)

[metmom]

No. Public but that doesn't mean: a)they taught it right, or b)that I was paying attention. The latter is more likely. That combined with way too many years between then and now ...

[Virginia-American]

I thought Math proved the existence of infinity?

You did? Math deals with the concept of infinity, but does not prove the existence of infinity. You see, infinity + 1 is larger than infinity.

It's worse than that - in set theory there's the "axiom of infinity"

Also in set theory are the concepts of infinite "cardinal" and "ordinal" numbers. For ordinals, addition and multiplication are not commutative reference

But cardinal arithmetic is commutative reference

[Virginia-American]

Having trouble are we? Darwin was in fact a misanthrope. Duplicitous and opportunistic...like his heirs here.

Misanthrope? Please give some examples of this

Duplicitous? Please provide a citation or two

Opportunistic? Please do the same for this as well.

BTW, can you provide the name of someone whose thesis was on Piltdown Man? Just one? Just the name? Not even the thesis itself?

[RunningWolf]

Well here is at least two

Piltdown was proclaimed genuine by several of the most brilliant British scientists of the day:
Arthur Smith Woodward,
Arthur Keith and
Grafton Elliot Smith

What is it with you people?? this stuff is easily obtained from sources like the BBC. Its all over the place. I found this in .0005 seconds

You people are ether extremely disingenuous or just plain kookoo, or both. Keep posting evo kooks.

Wolf