Posted on 07/04/2005 6:39:22 PM PDT by TexKat
Mountain Brook High School graduate Natalee Holloway went missing May 30 during a senior trip to Aruba.
AP photo
Thanks!
A version of the Aruban Rent-A-Mob and or the Aruban, Let's-Move-On organization. Let's move on from this murder, so our tourist industry want suffer and our corruption not be exposed. NSNR
In post #1030 above, it sounds as though Aruban LE wanted to retain Jeremy Brown (Nat's ex-boyfriend?). Do you know if he is indeed Nat's ex-bf?
Placemarker bump, and a hearty, "Guess we're not ever going to Aruba."
Duh...I guess I need another cup-o-jo.
This is the first I've heard of this. Hmmmm..... Did they give any more details about it, or is that the extent of the information? For some reason, I always forget to watch Grace.
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S MOTHER: It is now that I ask the world to help me. Two suspects were released yesterday who were involved in a violent crime against my daughter. These criminals are not only allowed to walk freely among the tourists and citizens of Aruba, but there are no limits where they may choose to travel. I am asking all mothers and fathers in all nations to hear my plea. I implore you, do not allow these two suspects, the Kalpoe brothers, to enter your country until this case is solved.
PINTO: Those two suspects Beth Twitty is talking about, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, were not charged. Their lawyers say they`re innocent. And they were let out of jail. Tonight, we`re going live to Aruba. We have a panel here in New York, Philadelphia. We have Linda Allison, Natalee Holloway`s aunt, who will be with us later.
But first, let`s go to CNN correspondent Dave Mattingly to tell us what`s happening in this Aruban case. Dave, anything new to report today since the Kalpoe brothers left -- left -- are no longer jailbirds?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, earlier tonight, just a couple of hours ago, some new information coming to us in this case. Defense attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers confirmed to CNN that fishermen - - Aruban fishermen have told investigators that they did not see a couple matching the description of Natalee Holloway and Joran Van Der Sloot on the beach the night that Natalee was reported missing.
What they did see, however, was a white Suzuki on the beach. If you remember, a white Suzuki was one of the vehicles confiscated during a search of the Van Der Sloot home. This new information might have been responsible in part for the judge`s decision to keep Van Der Sloot in jail for another 60 days for questioning in this case. We don`t know if it had any bearing on his decision to release the Kalpoe brothers.
PINTO: And the Kalpoe brothers -- what car were they in?
MATTINGLY: They drove -- they drove a Honda, if I remember correctly, a silver-gray Honda. So that was not the vehicle seen on the beach.
PINTO: Dave, what I don`t understand here is these two people, who are no longer suspects, who are free to fly out of Aruba if they want to -- they can go to Surinam, they can go anywhere, much to the upset of the Holloway family -- these two young boys were with Natalee that night. They gave contradictory statements. They`re alleged to have received text messages. What gives here? Is the prosecution going to appeal this?
MATTINGLY: The prosecution has indicated that they will attempt to appeal the judge`s decision. They also claim they have other information that may come out in the future. Remember, these two young men are still officially considered suspects.
PINTO: Oh, they are?
MATTINGLY: And if any new information comes up in the future, they could easily be called back and put back behind bars for another round of questioning, just as they`ve gone through now since back in June.
PINTO: Dave, let`s hear what their attorney has to say about all of this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got those statements just in the weekend. They were two persons, like I said, who went fishing. And they remember it very clearly because of other commitments that they had afterwards, that they were sure that that was that night.
And their detail is that they were there the whole night on the beach, fishing, and almost at the same place where supposedly Joran and the girl was and where they went swimming and where the girl remained afterwards and he left her there. And they are so convinced that on that date, during, if I`m not mistaken, 12:00 o`clock at night and 5:00 o`clock in the morning, there was no person, no girl, no other person on that beach.
So I think -- I think it must be clear now that that just did not take place as it was indicated. What I also remember from the statement is that they indicated that they have seen a car, a different car than my client`s car, because from where they were, it`s not the road where my client and his brother dropped Joran and the girl, but that they had seen a Jeep-type of car during -- in that timeframe that stayed for about 30 to 40 minutes. That was the only thing that they saw that was abnormal for that day. But besides that, they didn`t see anything.
PINTO: Well, that was the attorney for the Kalpoe brothers, David Kock, talking about what he described as an eye -- fishermen who were eyewitnesses to the beach where Joran and Natalee were allegedly last seen.
Let me bring in Alex Sanchez from my panel, a criminal defense attorney here in New York. This guy`s a dream for you, isn`t he, Alex? This is an eyewitness.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, certainly, an eyewitness is helpful to the defense. And if this witness can provide some information which is helpful to the Kalpoe brothers, you know, great. But you know, I hope all Americans watching what`s going on in Aruba appreciate what a debacle is occurring over there and how far superior our system of justice and how far superior our investigators are in this country.
PINTO: Alex, you don`t have to wave the American flag. For once, I find myself agreeing with a defense attorney. From the beginning, two men of color, who with a crummy physical description of black shirt and black pants, are pick up. Then we have, you know, the father advising -- the local father who is entrenched with the local prosecutor giving his son advice. I mean, what gives? In our jurisdiction here, Alex...
SANCHEZ: Yes?
PINTO: ... wouldn`t a special prosecutor be brought in? You practice in the Bronx. I practiced in Queens in New York. There`s no way a local DA would handle case.
SANCHEZ: I think a special prosecutor would be brought in because chances are, this judge, the father of the prime suspect in this case, knows everybody on the island.
PINTO: Right.
SANCHEZ: They should bring somebody in from the home country in there and be a complete objective, independent investigator here because...
PINTO: Well, my -- Alex...
SANCHEZ: Yes?
PINTO: ... my understanding is they have brought in a judge from Curacao, at this point. but my problem is with the early investigation here, in the first weeks, in the first days. Why wasn`t Joran questioned. Why wasn`t his car searched?
Dr. Wecht, talk to me about the importance of seizing and searching a crime scene immediately after the alleged disappearance of a person like Natalee Holloway.
DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, obviously, we suggest, as it is so important for the homicide detective to become involved immediately, so it is equally important, if not moreso, for the forensic scientist to be there, the forensic pathologist and the criminalist. You want to look to see if you can identify any kind of trace evidence -- hair fiber, thread, any sort of bodily fluid stains...
PINTO: Dr. Wecht, but what about this white Suzuki. Is it too late to search this car now, the white Suzuki?
WECHT: Well, it`s never too late. The question is, what are you likely to find? But it still should be done. The car itself should be searched very, very thoroughly for all of these things. At that time, the car should have been looked at to see whether or not there was any evidence that came from the beach, any particular pieces of, you know, geological material that might have...
PINTO: Sure.
WECHT: ... been adhering. So these are the kinds of things that should have been done. Why the boy was brought in and released, what, the next day, I believe...
PINTO: Right.
WECHT: ... and why the vehicle wasn`t...
PINTO: Dr. Wecht...
WECHT: ... searched -- it really staggers the imagination.
PINTO: Dr. Wecht, I`m hearing in my ear that we have Natalee`s aunt with us Linda Allison, and I`d really like to hear from her because the family`s been through a lot, especially with the release of these two suspects.
Ms. Allison, are you with us?
LINDA ALLISON, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S AUNT: I`m with you.
PINTO: How is the mood in your camp these days, with these two boys wandering around, free to fly to Surinam? I heard your sister-in-law, I believe it is, former sister-in-law, Beth Holloway Twitty -- very emotional press conference. And my heart just went out to her.
ALLISON: Yes. Very -- it was a very moving, very emotional day for us, actually, yesterday and today, just hearing the release of the Kalpoe brothers, When we feel like the three of them are the link to us finding Natalee. And it`s just been very frustrating. We also had a meeting with the prosecuting attorney, who assured us that these two boys are still suspects.
PINTO: She says that...
ALLISON: ... and that they are continuing...
PINTO: She says that, Ms. Allison. Doesn`t it upset you that there`s no restrictions on their release? This judge basically said they can do what they want. The police can`t watch them. They can leave the island. I mean...
ALLISON: You know, it is very -- it`s very upsetting, and when we also know that, as far as visitation to the prison that`s here on the island, where Joran Van Der Sloot is -- he`s allowed an unlimited number of people coming to visit him. And nothing is videoed, no audio, nothing recorded on that.
PINTO: Including his father, the former prosecutor and judge, who we know has given him legal advice in the past, correct?
ALLISON: That`s correct. And so if he continues to tell him to remain silent, it makes it difficult.
PINTO: Well, Ms. Allison...
ALLISON: You know, he can...
PINTO: I was really pleased to hear your senator is getting involved, that -- that, you know, here we are, fighting for you in this country. We want to get the FBI more involved. We want this case to proceed in a more expeditious manner. My best wishes to you and your family.
ALLISON: Thank you so much.
PINTO: Quickly, Debra, after the break, I want to hear from you about your take on this case because to me, this is a defense attorney`s dream. But quickly, a short break. We`ll be back on the Aruba story after the break.
DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S FATHER: Well, I would like to see all of them come together and tell us what is the real story. You know, we`ve heard already five or six different stories, and -- you know, until we find Natalee, that`ll be the big puzzle.
NADIRA RAMIREZ, MOTHER OF KALPOE BROTHERS: I should have been worried, yes. But why? Why? I mean, they -- all their proof. We have patience. The boy had patience, our lawyers, myself, father, sister. And we try to hold up and give them their time to do their work, you know? But I know that they are innocent, and they will be out.
PINTO: That was Deepak and Satish Kalpoe`s mom talking about their release in Aruba.
I`m Lisa Pinto, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thanks for being with us.
Let me go to my panel of legal experts that I have here. Deb Opri, I, you know, want to get to you because to me, this case is a dream for your side of the fence! I mean, bungle, no search warrant, no statement. They get to talk to each other. They`re handcuffed in the back of a police car.
DEBRA OPRI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You keep saying it`s a criminal defense attorney`s dream. It`s -- it`s nothing right now of a crime scene investigation, in my mind. Where`s the crime scene? Was it at the club? Was it at the hotel? Was it on a beach? Right now, for all lack of evidence -- no DNA, no trace evidence...
PINTO: Debra!
OPRI: ... no criminal...
PINTO: Debra!
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: You don`t need a body!
OPRI: We have a missing -- we have a missing girl. You want the United States to really get involved? I do. Why don`t we just call it a kidnapping, a missing woman? Why don`t we extend beyond the island? We`ve covered every inch of that island. We`ve gone to the ocean. Have we gone to neighboring islands? Why don`t we put an all-out search for this woman...
PINTO: Wait a minute! Wait a minute, Debra!
OPRI: ... so the United States can get involved, Lisa?
PINTO: I know -- this is the -- this is the sex slave theory.
OPRI: It`s not a criminal defense attorney`s dream.
PINTO: Wait! Wait! My turn here, Debra!
OPRI: It`s a joke.
PINTO: This is the...
OPRI: It`s a joke.
PINTO: This is the sex slave theory, right, that she`s in Venezuela...
OPRI: That`s right.
PINTO: ... as a prostitute. I`m sorry, I`m going with the common- sense answer...
OPRI: Body dumped in the ocean?
PINTO: ... the fact that she was with a young man who...
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: Debra, you know what?
OPRI: What did he do? What did he do with her body?
PINTO: Your first clue is it`s an island, and there are a lot of currents going a lot of different directions off that island, and maybe that`s why we can`t find her. I want to get Nancy out there diving.
OPRI: Lisa, I don`t dismiss the fact that he might have killed her. I don`t dismiss the fact that he might have gotten to the point where the body was dumped. But at this point in time, she`s still missing. Why can`t we expand the search to neighboring islands, to maybe go into the slave trade?
PINTO: Debra, let me ask you this. If your client had a father who was an ex-prosecutor, who was heard giving advice, asking friends of your client what they had said to the police, making a statement like, Well, you know, they can`t prosecute a murder without a body, wouldn`t you think that maybe your client had gotten some good legal advice from Dad?
OPRI: Well, let me answer it this way. It certainly wouldn`t be a criminal defense attorney`s dream to have a client with a father like this guy. This guy, if anything, is causing a lot of havoc. Maybe, in a sense, he`s alluding to a guilt of his son when there shouldn`t be any. Maybe he interjected himself some in something he shouldn`t have and he made it worse.
PINTO: Well, Debra, I`m delighted to spar with you.
Let me go to Alex Sanchez because I`d like to hear another defense attorney`s take on this. Alex...
SANCHEZ: Well, I just...
PINTO: Come on! No statement, no nothing!
SANCHEZ: Well, that`s why I think the Kalpoe brothers were released, by the way, because I think they have secretly struck a deal with the prosecution in the case. They`re not revealing this information, of course...
PINTO: Oh!
SANCHEZ: ... but secretly, behind the scenes, they`re meeting with the prosecutors and they`re giving information about the whereabouts of Holloway and where her body is located because, in my mind, there`s no doubt that...
PINTO: You know what?
SANCHEZ: ... unfortunately, she`s dead.
PINTO: In New York, Alex -- if this was New York, I would agree with you. But under Dutch law, you`re not allowed to plea bargain. You`re not allowed to turn state`s evidence. That`s my understanding.
SANCHEZ: Well, you know, they may not...
PINTO: Whole different system!
SANCHEZ: The Kalpoe brothers may not have committed a crime. Now, true, they gave some, you know, contradictory statements. But they may have some information. They want to throw off any...
PINTO: Alex...
SANCHEZ: ... suspicion away from themselves and finally throw themselves to the prosecutor and say, Listen, this is what we know.
PINTO: Alex, wouldn`t you like to see those text messages that were allegedly sent by Joran Van Der Sloot?
SANCHEZ: I would like to see them...
PINTO: And these phone calls?
SANCHEZ: And the police seen them.
PINTO: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And they know what`s in them, and that`s why, probably, he`s being held in jail and everybody else is released.
PINTO: I got to tell you, this case makes me glad to be an American because we are allowed to know what the police have. We get to see the complaints. We get to hear the state`s evidence. We get to go in the courtroom. Do you know that Beth Holloway Twitty was not allowed into the hearing when these boys were released? She to wait outside in the hallway. There is not the -- the idea of victims` rights under Dutch law -- it`s -- it`s just minimal. And I think that`s one of the real tragedies in this case.
Let me bring in Lauren Howard. You know, they`re not allowed in the courtroom.
HOWARD: Right.
PINTO: They see these people getting -- it`s a revolving door of suspects...
HOWARD: Right. Right. Right.
PINTO: ... in and out. What is this family going through?
HOWARD: Well, they`re completely rendered impotent by the system, by the Dutch system. But the event, in and of itself -- I mean, I don`t think Debra Opri is that far afield from saying that we really don`t know that a crime was committed here. It`s very possible that Natalee had had too much to drink and wandered off and got -- you don`t know!
PINTO: Oh, Lauren! Come on!
HOWARD: You do not -- you have no evidence. You have no evidence!
PINTO: Wandered where?
HOWARD: You`ve got a teenage boy and a teenage girl necking on a beach. That`s what you have.
PINTO: Lauren -- Lauren...
HOWARD: That`s all you have.
PINTO: No disrespect. Her bags were packed. Her passport was ready.
HOWARD: Absolutely. She was ready to go.
PINTO: This was a golden girl! She was in Bible study!
HOWARD: And golden girls have accidents. It could -- we don`t know.
PINTO: She drowned?
HOWARD: The only thing we know...
PINTO: Is that what you`re telling me?
HOWARD: ... is we don`t know.
PINTO: You think she drowned?
HOWARD: It`s possible.
PINTO: Why wouldn`t Joran say that?
HOWARD: It`s all possible.
PINTO: Why wouldn`t he say, Look...
HOWARD: Because he didn`t know because he left her on the -- we don`t know. All I`m saying is this is complete conjecture for...
(CROSSTALK)
HOWARD: ... point of view, they are completely rendered impotent by the system and the circumstances.
PINTO: You know what I...
HOWARD: No one knows anything.
PINTO: Lauren, I`ve watched these press conferences. I would not say that Beth Holloway Twitty is an impotent woman. I would say she is an alpha mom guarding her cub! She`s been on the news, in the press.
HOWARD: But you asked...
PINTO: She is a tough cookie!
PINTO: But Lisa, wait a second. You`re contradicting yourself because you`re saying to me, What is it doing to this family that she can`t be in the courtroom? And what I`m saying back to you is it is rendering the family impotent. They have nothing to do except call for help. That`s all they can do. And that`s why they`re doing it. They are doing exactly what a mother cub does.
PINTO: No, no!
HOWARD: They are doing what a parent instinctively does, anything they can do to protect their child. And that`s the -- their only recourse right now because there`s nothing else they can do.
PINTO: Right.
HOWARD: All their doors are closed.
PINTO: But Lauren, you can understand how you can be victimized but you can fight back like this family.
HOWARD: And you`ve got to! That`s called survival. That is their -- it`s the most beautiful part of humanity, to see the parents doing this. They have no option.
PINTO: I am -- thank you, Lauren. I`m tremendously impressed by the courage of this family.
Quick break, folks. We`ll be back with more.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: I just can`t understand that three kids -- you know, they were involved in foul play -- could have disposed of Natalee in such a way that we couldn`t find her. So that leads me to believe that possibly there`s other people involved in the case. And until you prove or somebody proves me otherwise, I just got that feeling.
PINTO: Good evening. I`m Lisa Pinto, in for Nancy Grace tonight. We`re live in Aruba, talking to the family of Natalee Holloway. But first, let`s go out to CNN correspondent Dave Mattingly to hear more about the search for Natalee. David, what do they have planned?
MATTINGLY: What does the family or the investigation?
PINTO: The investigation. Tell me. Are Equusearch still down there? I understand the Dutch are sending planes. Are these planes too late?
MATTINGLY: Well, they are coming in with a very high-tech approach to what they`ve been -- what they`ve been doing before, to augment all of that on-the-ground searching that occurred here in Aruba. They were flying overhead today, a very thunderous roar as they came flying over the resorts, everyone looking up at the sky as the F-16s come through. They were doing a test run today. They will be coming back through with infrared equipment and other special cameras that can literally photograph every square inch of this island. They`ll be concentrating particularly on those areas where the foot searches were not able to get into. So it could yield something that could be helpful.
PINTO: Let me ask Linda Allison, who`s right next to you, Natalee`s aunt -- you`ve been through a tough week. It`s already been a tough start to the week. What are the family`s plans for the rest of the week? How are you going to direct the search? What are you going to do?
ALLISON: Well, I continue to meet with Equusearch and get information. I`ve been out some with them, where they have been making dives. I`ve been on the coastline just, again, trying to be involved and stay busy every day because just sitting in a hotel is not very productive and not very good on the stress level. We hope that they`ll continue -- Equusearch is going to be here at least another week -- continue to pound the pavement there and be out searching. And I`ve just had a plea that the Dutch marines and the Equusearch can work in conjunction with one another because you have Equusearch out doing...
PINTO: Linda...
ALLISON: ... their thing, and you have the Dutch marines not doing -- you know, not really coordinating the activity.
PINTO: Must be so -- thank you, Linda. Must be so frustrating that everybody`s not working together. Thank you so much. We`ll stay with this story.
I want to thank all my guests tonight. Remember, all our talk is meaningless if you`re not listening, you`re not watching and participating in this debate on criminal justice. Thanks for being with us tonight.
Coming up, we have headlines from all around the world and Larry on CNN. I`m Lisa Pinto, signing off for tonight. Hope to see you here tomorrow night.
END
I looked at the pics I have of JvdS, and in 6 of the 7, he's wearing a blue shirt. In the 7th pic, he's making a gang hand sign. I think that's a little bit more than coincidental.
[If there are any people in Aruba who might have a useful tip that might help solve this case, do you think they'll come forward now? I don't!]
I think if there were any people in Aruba who might have a useful tip they would have already come forward by now. If they have a useful tip and DIDN'T come forward they probably never were going to anyway.
You got it. And the ones funding the protesters better rethink their slimey tactics. This will only backfire and do more harm to Aruba. Beth and family not only have solid support from the American people, but they said this morning on Fox & Friends that the international support they've received has been incredible.
Some good old fashioned detective work could uncover the paid protests in a heartbeat. I doubt most of those 'protesters' have the luxury of even owning an Aruban flag. Feeding their kids is probably their biggest priority and therein lies the rub. P*ss of Americans by insulting our media and the Holloway-Twittys and watch your tourist dollars disappear.
Even Greta commented on how she wasn't sure if Mickey John may have been EMBELLISHING things since he was adding more and more new details.
The two witnesses saw a white Suzuki, and it was also reported vdS have a white Suzuki.
Yes, it is very strong language. Still waiting to see if its accurate. Maybe that is part of why some of the Arubans are so up in arms. They keep threateneing to show them what they have but nothing is ever shown.
I've forgotten. Where did this factoid originally come from? (Paul vdS telling the boys "no body, no case")
Didn't Paul vds tell the police himself that he gave the boys that advice? That's how I remember it, anyway. But if that's true, why would he be so stupid to admit he told the boys that? I mean, that's beyond stupid, especially coming from a judge-in-training. Doesn't make sense.
Extended thread 4 was in the smokey back room. It is not a private area. Its a link right above the poll.
Thank you!
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