Posted on 03/29/2005 8:58:34 AM PST by Long Cut
We, the Witness Protection Program For Freepers, aka the Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane, have through mutual discussion and rigourous thought, determined that:
1. The discussion threads regarding Terri Schiavo (hereafter referred to as "TS") have become too full of innuendo, rumormongering, hyperbole, hysteria, namecalling, paranoia, and general poor behavior to warrant participation.
2. Said threads have degenerated into "echo chambers", wherein the same, common thoughts are continually posted again and again, and the same old disreputable, unconfirmed and/or false urban myths are propagated.
3. Anyone who joins in said theads with alternative viewpoints to the most extreme posts are routinely driven away with slander, accusations, and vile namecalling.
4. No data or evidence contrary to the "prevailing opinions" are accepted, considered, or discussed; and in fact are rejected outright in most instances.
5. That the continued calls for armed insurrection, military or paramilitary involvement, impeachements of politicians and judges, and death threats are embarassing, stupid, shortsighted, doomed to failure, and contrary to most if not all conservative thought prior to this case, as well as damaging in the extreme to FR and the conservative movement as a whole.
6. That such emotional, hyperbolic, and propaganda-driven hysteria is in fact contrary to all conservatives USED to stand for.
7. That the holding up of swastika and other Nazi imagery towards the police and the Bushes, the use of children as political props, and the disruption of the peace at the Woodside Hospice can only reflect badly on conservatives in general, and should be discouraged.
8. That the pursuit of this issue to the exclusion of all others by the GOP has damaged, perhaps beyond repair, the pursuit of other important issues as well as the reputation of the GOP, FR, and conservatism.
The WPPFF is NOT of one mind as to the case of TS or its correct outcome. In fact, wide disagreement exists within our little group. However, we are united in our wish that reason and sanity be respected in the discussion, as well as the rights of all parties involved or participating. We wish to discuss this as adults and intellectuals, as conservatives and as FRiends, not as children screaming past each other on some playground of hysteria. We wish for facts and evidence to be provided, discussed reasonably, and considered fairly.
We reject all accusations of Naziism, "death cultism", or other slander as methods of debate. We reject the practice of "spamming" multiple threads, of posting unending vanities, and the posting of propaganda and calls for violence. We reject, in fact, all unseemly and childish behavior which has come to characterize this case on FR.
We DO invite others to come and reasonably discuss the issue. We have no problem with FReepers who wish to debate in a rational and fair manner, and with due respect for their fellow FReepers. We have NO problem with those whose views are formed by religion; however we reject "preaching" or "being beaten with a Bible" as legitemite debate tactics. Not all of us are Believers, and such tactics only cheapen the source.
If a FReeper finds this an acceptable meansd to discuss this and other issues, they are welcome to join in and participate. Those who find pleasure in attacks, flame-baiting, slander, stalking, and personal atacks will be ignored, and their egos will go unfed.
We assume this thread to be a zone of sanity in an overheated atmosphere. Thus, a general amnesty is in effect. If posters conduct themselves within the guidlines above, we will be happy to discuss and debate with you. If a poster wishes to apologize for past slips of the tongue, or for possible "over-the-top" statements to another, it will be graciously accepted, and your company welcome.
Please bring a sense of humor; we feel that too many have been taking themselves too seriously lately.
Let the discussion begin!
Signed,
The WPPFF, aka The Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane.
FYI, following are some of Sen. Frist's comments regarding the bill:
"There has been a lot of discussion about what this bill actually does. Let me explain: simply put, it allows Terri’s case to be heard in a federal court. This legislation permits a federal district judge to consider a claim on behalf of Terri for alleged violations of Constitutional rights or federal laws relating to the withholding of food, water or medical treatment necessary to sustain her life.
This bill guarantees a process to help Terri, but does not guarantee a particular outcome. Once a new case is filed, a federal district judge can issue a stay at any time, 24 hours a day. A stay would allow Terri to be fed once again. The judge has discretion on this decision. However, I would expect that a federal judge would grant a stay under these circumstances because Terri would need to live in order for the court to consider the case.
If a new suit goes forward, the federal judge must conduct what’s called “de novo” review of the case. De novo review means the judge must look at the case anew. The judge need not rely on or defer to the decisions of previous judges. The judge also may make new findings of fact. Practically, this means that in a new case, the judge can reevaluate and reassess Terri’s medical condition."
Is there any wonder that some folks have already left, while others contemplate the same?
When this thread was first posted, I expressed revulsion at that statement by Randall Terry, and for that I was instantly labeled a 'liberal'. Quite amusing actually, as our founding fathers expressing rejected a theocracratic government, and the fact that I am a staunch defender of the Constitution, and its principles. I guess I could be better described as a "classical liberal", but not as the term "liberal" is understood today. Anyone who knows me well would split their sides laughing at the notion of someone thinking I'm a "liberal".
Good morning. Thanks for bumping the thread.
I seen some of the people here that I could have freeped with and met publicly, offer up death wishes and threats to Judges and other individuals they disagree with. I can't help but be glad that I was cautious and never gave up enough information on myself that some nutcase who might not like what I write here would try and and target me.
Something to consider when you are pinged to any public get together organized online.
I see. So you are correct, and DeLay, Boies et al....are all wrong in their reading of the Law?
How about the Brief submitted by members of Congress...
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCommentary.asp?Page=%5CCommentary%5Carchive%5C200503%5CCOM20050325a.html
* According to a few Members of the US House of Representatives, I was incorrect in my assertion on Wednesday that the bill signed into law early Monday morning (Public Law 109-3) simply gave Terri Schiavo's parents access to the Federal Courts and did not require the reinsertion of her feeding tube.
* The "few Members" of the House of Reps include Speaker Dennis Hastert, Majority Leader Tom DeLay, Majority Whip Roy Blount, and Judiciary Committee chairman James Sensenbrenner as well as Florida Congressman Dave Weldon (who is an M.D.) submitted a "friend of the court" brief asserting the legislative intent of the law.
* Their brief stated that Public Law 109-3, requires US District Court Judge James Whittemore to have Mrs. Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted pending the outcome of the federal court reviews.
* The section of the brief in question reads, "Clearly, the Middle District of Florida is required by Public Law 109-3 to keep Theresa Marie Schiavo alive until such time as a de novo review of her claims occur."
(P.S.. going a bit further, since when is a De Novo review, a procedural review...that in and of itself madates that the case is heard "over again; as if for the first time." ...)
The law clearly stated NOT to give credence or weight to any previous court ruling.
Which is not a Procedural Review. Thats my point.
Really? Is it a blacklist? Am I going to get hate mail? You know you're moving up in the world when people send you angry, illiterate scribble.
I'm so excited. I hope I get something super crazy that I can share.
Certainly such things can be highly entertaining!
:-)
That's why I like these threads because we can actually talk with each other instead of past each other.
And it's why I'd love to see a survey about feeding tubes in general and wonder if the feeling about them is because some people have never seen a loved one go through this or if it's just a general distaste for the removal of them.
I can only tell you that I've seen a loved one go through this, without a living will. And my stepdaughter who works in a nursing home for 12 years sees this quite frequently. Some posters who work in hospitals have said the same thing.
Certainly cancer patients refuse feeding tubes frequently because eating, in any form, makes them sick. If I told you what my aunt went through whenever she had food, it would shock you. So she just refused it.
Morphine is given in these instances, even with massive stroke victims or brain dead victims. It's called a "just in case measure".
But I understand completely how others feel differently about feeding tube removal than I do and respect those opinions. If any good is to come of this entire debacle it is that people will think through these issues, make their wishes clear in a written document and make sure that family members know as well.
For me, if I am in a state that I'm not cognitive, I don't want to tie my family to me and would like to be let to slip away. Even if my body is healthy and it seems like once in a blue moon that I may be responsive. If neurologists say that I'm not, and everything that can be tried has been tried, I'd like to be let go.
Sometimes it's just so appropriate.
No, it's no wonder at all, mhking. Sadly. I never thought I'd see FR permit this kind of witch hunt.
But sending kids out to do your dirty work makes great television, and scores more points with "the base" than it would if you sent out some Joe Schmoe off the street...
A few well-placed images of children being cuffed and arrested by the police is guaranteed to get a certain segment of the population up in arms...
And that was the idea. I bet donations really kicked into high gear after that.
Let 'em. I get put on lists by libs and soul patrol members all the time. I'm still standing.
Okay, I guess this is inevitable... Will it be called "Schindler's List"?
You have got to be joking?? They are making lists?? Why??? We've just said we prefer a civil discussion without name calling and accusations. Why is that horrible???
My only response is to note how irresponsible it is to characterize a whole thread with thousands of responses by a single post.
The fact that I had objected to the post you noted and did not like seems not to have mattered to you, off and away to disparage nonetheless.
That's not right.
This is my fear. That our right to self determination will be taken away by our own party.
This is my fear also. No one had better think of over-ruling my right to say No to whatever treatment I refuse! I have had an Advance Directive for at least 16 years, and my DPOA knows what I want and do not want. All my relatives know how strongly I feel about this.
No Congressperson or Judge has the right to second guess my decisions.
Let's see... I've seen one called "A list of the Let Terri Die FReepers", one referred to as the "Pro-Death Crowd on FR" etc...
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