Posted on 02/11/2005 10:55:36 AM PST by Jim Robinson
The shot heard around the Internet has been fired on FreeRepublic.com The owner Jim Robinson and his moderators have launched a sniper style purge against members that disagree with the President’s ‘guest worker’ amnesty or support more control of illegal immigration. Free Republic is an amazing tool for those looking for a good debate and news from around the country.
The problem for the administration of the site is that their creation is allowing the participants to learn that the Bush immigration record and plans are shockingly out of line with the views of most conservatives. The management’s answer to this conflict between the majority of conservatives and the influence of the White House on their Web site has become electronic executions and censorship.
Members and readers of Free Republic would be surprised to know that many members of their community have fallen silent on the discussions about illegal immigration lately because free speech is an illusion on FR.com. They are silent because they have been banned from the Web site without warning, cause, or explanation in most cases. For weeks the moderators have been suspending and banning new members that chimed in quickly on the immigration debates.
Now this trend has broadened as the first groups of long-term users were suspended or banned this past week. Although Robinson and his staff removed many members of the Free Republic community in the first few days of the purge, those that religiously support President Bush’s immigration plan, open borders and approve of public benefits for illegal aliens remain on the forum. Those that were banned were the members that wanted more done to control illegal immigration and a strict observance to the President’s Oath of Office.
"When the Know-Nothings get control, it [Declaration of Independence] will read "all men are created equal, except Negroes and foreigners and Catholics." When it comes to this, I shall prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty - to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure and without the base alloy of hypocrisy."
The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Letter to Joshua F. Speed" (August 24, 1855), p. 323.
Trade is fine, but all partners must abide by a fair set of rules for it to work properly.
I guess I'm sort of naive as to what is going on. I don't believe that FReepers who are voicing their honest opinions are being silenced in this forum. So it must be from special lobbyists who are using this forum for some hidden agenda.
I would say a good number of Americans are concerned about the open borders. We heard yesterday about a three mile open fence line where Mexico borders San Diego that the city refuses to fix. And that there are 1,000,000 yes 1,000,000 illegals come across the border each day from Mexico, and of course Mexico literature that tells these people how to get over the border and survive onced here.
We keep hearing that the Republicans do not want to alienate the latino vote in this country so there is less than an enthusiastic effort on their part to do something about it.
I think Jim's posting clears all this up and tells us what is fact and what is fantasy on this issue.
nikos
I'm with ya, Jim.
Semper Fi, mac ... you're the greatest, and so is FR.
Your discharge of the discourteous and inflammatory ballast is quite appropriate.
In my experience, all ideas and points of view are on the table here at FR ... it's just the nasty crybabyism that is so unwelcome.
"Continued posting of racism, personal attacks, insults, profanity, etc, will lead to a sudden loss of posting privileges (with or without warning or explanation). Don't bother writing."
Unfortunalty, the punishment is kind of one sided, as shown by these posts and the fact that these posters don't get a suden loss of posting privileges for their continued personal attacks.
To: inquest; spodefly
You're either lying or grossly misinformed.
Hey, spodie, I found that mental midget your were expecting to show up!
78 posted on 02/09/2005 11:45:30 AM MST by Howlin (It's a great day to be an American -- and a Bush Republican!!!!)
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To: JustAnotherSavage
You know what the lie is: the lie is that anybody who doesn't agree with you is for open borders and is pro-illegal immigration.
As for the rest of your posts, I can only conclude it's the ravings of a lunatic.
And I wish you would ignore me. I choose to discuss this topic with people who will stick to the facts and not twist words to suit themselves.
116 posted on 02/09/2005 12:32:49 PM MST by Howlin (It's a great day to be an American -- and a Bush Republican!!!!)
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To: dangus
Listen...either step up to my level or crawl off.
I won't waste my time arguing with the challenged.
170 posted on 02/09/2005 9:30:21 PM MST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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As a second generation American I'm with you on that.
ROFLMAO!
I have seen very little racism in the discussions of illegal immigration. It is not racist to say that most of the illegal aliens in this country are from Mexico. There are others from El Salvador, Britain, Ireland, China and many other countries. However, our southern border is shared with Mexico and it should not be considered racist to point that out.
I have seen posters, who dislike seeing us critique the proposed immigration reforms of the Bush administration, be very quick to call someone a racist when they are not. I have suffered unwarranted attacks from such a type of person. They always lead with a very personal attack and, yes, I have wondered why they are tolerated when others are banned. It would appear more fair if all of the flagrant flamers were banned.
I also respect the fact that the owner of the site calls the shots. I have felt safer here at Free Republic than on any other forum or board I have been on. Every day I meet another wonderful new (to me) person and I would never want to lose that. I do not attack other posters. But sometimes I have to draw my own "line in the sand," and I will not let anyone say untrue things about me personally. Go ahead and disagree, but honor the rules of discourse.
You call me an open borders advocate or a illegal alien lover and you'll get the same responses.
I agree. I'm not in favor of wild, uncontrolled immigration of any kind, but neither is Bush and neither is JR. However, the stuff I have read posted by the "anti illegals" crowd was enough to make my hair stand on end. It was full of undeniably racist, raving bigotry, much of it anti-Catholic as well as anti-Hispanic, and I doubt that 80% of Freepers shared those opinions.
I'm glad JR is doing something about it. I was considering stopping my donation because I really didn't want to be associated with a site that had people like that posting on it, frankly. They should be off with the Aryan Brotherhood.
Actually, I have often thought that some of the more radical and off-the-wall ranters were plants from the Dems, trying to stir up some of the more easily stirred-up folks and also trying to make all of us look as though we should be wearing white sheets. I thought that one of these days, they were going to announce that FR was a hate site and get us closed down. That would be typical leftist politics, and I think JR is aware of it, too.
Thank you, JR..
sw
Thanks Jim !
You hit on the crux there, whether you meant to or not. All we see and hear are complaints, but not one person offering a solution. Demanding the borders be secured is easy. We all want that. Well, most of us do. How's about some suggestions on how to go about that within logistic sensibility?
"Last but not least,we don't have any idea how many illegals are here. Maybe we should tag the one's we catch like they do some fish."
President GHW Bush was likened to the Antichrist for proposing the exact opposite of that : tattooing legal residents with their SS numbers with ink only readable under certain light. You might not want to push that idea too hard.
Several months back there was a thread about a group called "Stormfront" that is apparently quite racist. It seems that some of their members were planning to infiltrate here and hoped to show us the light apparently.
Several questions come to mind regarding this:
1. If they truly want to be free why don't they become part of our culture? Every recent hispanic "immigrant" that I know refers to his home country when he says, "My country..." Whereas the few Polish immigrants I know refer to the U.S. as their country. Even the asians I know refer to the U.S. as their country.
2. At what point do we finally stop the inflow? Sure, they all want to free but can we supply the billions that want to get here the freedom they want?
3. Is it about freedom or is it about economic opportunity? If it is about economic opportunity then they should be willing to work in their home country to gain that economic freedom. Why is it the United States' responsibility to provide economic freedom to these millions?
To prevent the border crossers from Texas and New Mexico alone would require a standing Army of 3 Million,...
I don't agree. An aggressive enforcement of the laws we have would discourage most. The reason it is so rampant is because the word is out that we don't do anything about it.
The way things are going I expect a resurgence of the "America First" types.
What's wrong with seeing your home country as "first"? I want America to thrive and survive before any other country on earth. Don't you?
Thank you Mr. Robinson.
That sounds like a recent banned member named Murph1 or something.
According to his site:
All can please note, that I'm neither Republican or (certainly not) Democrat; rather, I'm a Christian (first), and a real American (second). Real Americans understand the original (organic) documents overrule _all_ politics, and the founding fathers paid a _heavy_ price to give us a republic (NOT a democracy) which is really quite different than the two political party game.
Although the Republicans are more American, these things change, and Americans must deligently protect our republic from all enemies foreign and domestic. I'm hoping site moderators and contributors move in that direction as the future unfolds before us.
Given a key to our people and governmental health is that we strive to remain near the root and purity of our founding fathers. We should look to them and our origins for guidance into the future. I'm aware of no one who has as good an understanding of our kind of government as the founding fathers (NO ONE).
"The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether on one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny." --James Madison, The Federalist Papers No. 47.
"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else." --Theodore Roosevelt
See, even FDR knew some things about our republic. It seems to me the most important elements of it are limited government, bound by the rule of law, "and let us hear no more of trusting in men". New law cannot contradict organic law without amending the organic, regardless of who is asking for it.
Well, you put my mind at ease. I agree with your position on this. I see too many threads where people can't debate or disagree without going over the edge, regardless of which side they come down on. If this were my site, I'd not want these divisive discourses to be seen by outsiders. It gives FR a bad rep.
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