Does evolution contradict creationism?

There are two parts to creationism. Evolution, specifically common descent, tells us how life came to where it is, but it does not say why. If the question is whether evolution disproves the basic underlying theme of Genesis, that God created the world and the life in it, the answer is no. Evolution cannot say exactly why common descent chose the paths that it did.

If the question is whether evolution contradicts a literal interpretation of the first chapter of Genesis as an exact historical account, then it does. This is the main, and for the most part only, point of conflict between those who believe in evolution and creationists.

"And you base this belief, starting from a mediocre scientist from the 19th century who knew hardly anything about cells, nothing about DNA, who's own words about the fossil record have been falsified, and who believed in Lamarckian inheritance. Hardly a credible source to invest so much time and effort to prop up this rickety and moth-eaten theory. It's days are numbered, so is the hiding place for your unbelief. Agnostics and atheists will have to find a new way to throw rocks at God. Meanwhile many of us will give honor to God for the wonders of HIS creation. And we will marvel at the stupidity that unbelief can generate."

Darwin was a Genius. He stopped believing Lamarck after he figured out how it really worked, but he didn't come real close to understanding genetics.

No one is throwing rocks at God. I believe in God and understand evolution is a fact. We might be throwing rocks at your conception of God.

God made man in His image and man returned the favor.

Yep! Went to NYC. I was contemplating the Island of Manhattan, which took human beings with all their industry and intelligencer and the resources of a great nation about 200 years to build. I had to keep jumping out of the way as new (little buildings) spontaneously erupted out of the sidewalk. And consider that Manhattan is FAR LESS COMPLEX than a single living cell, cannot self-replicate, nor repair itself. And does not produce products for distant cities it knows nothing about.

As I've said before you should steer clear of humour. Invective seems to suit you better.

Although your Manhattan analogy is nothing to do with biological evolution I would point out that Manhattan is perfectly capable of replicating itself (were such a bizarre thing to be required), it does repair itself, and it does produce goods for distant cities it knows nothing about. (to see this you have to see Manhattan as a complete system, including the people in it, and its internal and external communication and transport links)

And besides ENTIRELY missing my point...you point is?

Like I was saying...cells within human organs produce proteins that are used by other cells they know nothing about, unless you want to speculate that cells have an extensive memory and actually know (are conscious) of what they are doing?

Either way you have the problem in the evolutionary paradigm. If cells are conscious of what they are doing, and why they are doing it, and where to send the manufactured proteins, then where does that intelligence reside? From where did that come? It only speaks of purposeful design. If cells do not know why they are manufacturing proteins for other cells, then why (according to evolution) would they be doing something they have no way of knowing how, or if it benefits them?

Either way you have intelligence on a cellular level that is beyond incredible, not to mention a communication and feedback system that would be more mysterious than God.

Or you have a designed system that was fit together by a master designer for a purpose that it accomplishes far better than my example of Manhattan, which does know why it exists, what it manufactures, and where it sends the products. (Which was my orginal point...get it?) And that ONLY because it is inhabited and built and designed by intelligent beings...excepting the liberals and lawyers who basically fulfill the role of parasites.

Yep we have...incredible isn't it? Tell me which came first the cell nucleus with its controlled water environment, controlled temperature range all built out of proteins, or the DNA, which specifies the proteins? And remember DNA is a very delicate substance, it has to have this controlled environment to function. Not to mention transcription processes and little factories to build the proteins...a process far more complex than any human factory...evolution has some splaing to due!

Read Romans...see what the Scripture says about those that WORSHIP the creature and creation rather than the creator. YOU are throwing rocks at God, even though subconsciously, or do you think sin is all a conscious act?

My concept of God is based on Scripture, experiences, and observation of nature and life, and a knowledge of human history.

If we are created in the image of God, then our emotions, feelings, desires, are some reflection of His, even though debased at this point. God does get mad...just like us (but in righteousness).

And imagine this: You go to a lot of effort to build a beautiful house, invest a lot of time, money, resources, sweat and tears. You built this house specifically for somebody that you actually love...you did it as an act and showing of that love.

They move in and not only do they trash your house, but they pretend that either the house always existed, or somebody else built it. They look right at you and while you show them the deed of ownership, and you pretend to not see or hear them. Maybe you are a far more elevated being, but if somebody did that to me, I would kick their ass, and kick them out of my house.

My humor and invective are BOTH better than your understanding of physical processes, or you science. Something like a human city has everything to do with biology, evolutionary or not. A city is built by us, (biological beings). A city is designed (although most very badly)

A single cell within any of us is far more complex, purposeful, and DESIGNED than any human city. It does things beyond its own capabilities, or in organization with other cells beyond its own capacity to know what, or why, it would do such a thing.

A single cell in the eye knows nothing of quantum waves, or photons, but in concert with various other cells, working synchronously at amazing speeds and with the human brain it assimilates billions of photons per second, adjusts for color, contrast, brightness, depth, flips the image 180 degrees and constructs them into a real-time video of the external world, and this without a conscious thought all day long.

That anyone in this day and age could pretend that this SYSTEM is NOT designed is a fool. You can call that invective, but I think it is an OBVIOUS truth only lost on devotees to the temple of evolution.

Why should I be easy on any of you? You have accepted a lie, (for you own reasons). Fine...but you proselyte others into your doctrines and do not allow the truth to be taught, and you pervert and limit the biological sciences. You are the false prophets of this age.

"My concept of God is based on Scripture, experiences, and observation of nature and life, and a knowledge of human history."

How nice.

My concept of God is based on a study of the Bible and fact.

I prefer my unknowable God to your canned one.

"My concept of God is based on a study of the Bible and fact."

The Pharisees could say the same. Great rock throwers at God also. Your intellect is darkened, you will never come to a knowledge of God though study. It is why you are enraptured by ToE. It massages a fallen intellect but does nothing for your faith. Ask Darwin's wife.

"Fine...but you proselyte others into your doctrines and do not allow the truth to be taught, and you pervert and limit the biological sciences. You are the false prophets of this age."

We don't tell people "if you don't believe that Noah put all the animals on a wooden boat for a year to save them from a non-existant worldwide flood, you are not Christian".

We don't tell people that the dino bones were placed in the strata less than 10,000 years ago, or the Bible is a pack of lies.

We don't try to force people to believe things that are just contrary to observed fact.

You need to look up prosyletize. We don't want to force you to think science is fact, but it would be nice if you would actually understand the science before you attempt to argue against it.

Scientists are not prophets. Scientists do not look for God. They just observe, collect data and put it into coherent systematic principles called "theories".

"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault." Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437

"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works." Rev. James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, 1890

"The Pharisees could say the same. Great rock throwers at God also. Your intellect is darkened, you will never come to a knowledge of God though study. It is why you are enraptured by ToE. It massages a fallen intellect but does nothing for your faith. Ask Darwin's wife."

The Pharisees could say the same. (Two can play the Pharisee game lol)

My God is impervious to rock throwing. (Two can play the literalist game ;-))

I understand science. Sorry you don't understand biology.
I don't believe in the rapture, either, sorry. How simplistic literalists took a greek word that looks like rapture and converted it into a literalist dogma boggles the mind. LOL

Unlike pagans, I do not attempt to contact dead people.
Would you pass a message to the lady for me? I understand she was a very kind and devout woman. Tell her I admire her character and the genius of her husband. Thank you.

Does any of the Jehu post that this replies to make any sense to any of you?

What the heck is "cellular intelligence"? This is a new one and I can't tell if he is making this up or if it is some new creationist crapsite talking point.

"Tell me which came first the cell nucleus with its controlled water environment, controlled temperature range all built out of proteins, or the DNA, which specifies the proteins? "

First you tell me which came first, the chicken or the egg? lol

Please PLEASE!! Get it through your head that biology doesn't care where life came from or who designed or did not design it. Biology deals with the life we have.

Creationists have injected the strawman of creation into the Theory of Evolution. Creation is NOT IN THE TOE!!!!
NADA, NOT THERE, NUNCA, NYET, LO, NO, ZERO , so please don't argue this way anymore. It just is a complete waste of your and my time.

Come up with a more interesting creationist crapsite talking point and we will discuss that. LOL

ToE infers life arose entirely by materialistic processes. It is still shown as such in primary school textbooks. The story of life crawling out of the slime is all from YOUR side of the isle. Sorry but you evolutionists tarred yourself with this brush, you will have to live with the results.

If ToE pretends to explain speciation, then at what species does it start the story? Frogs? Lizards? Trilobites? Algae? Funny you guys massage this theory to AVOID and EVADE the evidence of the discoveries of science since Darwin.

This theory was only credible for about 30 or 40 years. And it is YOU guys that have to invent incredible variations of this theory to account for the real evidience of the fossil record which (against all your protests) still indicates the sudden appearance (creation?) of species. And no transitory species that are not simply labeling games by the devout.

"ToE infers life arose entirely by materialistic processes."

First, as I have repeatedly instructed,creation is not in the ToE; so your use of "arose" is questionable.

Assuming you have understood what the science says in the ToE now, and that evolution only deals with "results of matter" (the definition of materialistic), I don't think you can say that and be intellectually honest.

Life IS different than minerals or chemicals just laying there. That said, you can't get science to investigate anything other than what can be observed. Science deals with practical reality.

Your belief in God is not threatened by the fact of evolution, UNLESS you interpret the Bible in such a way to be unable to accept that FACT. If as I believe, God created evolution, evolution is not entirely materialistic, is it?

Thus, your statement that evolution infers materialism is wrong.

"The story of life crawling out of the slime is all from YOUR side of the isle. Sorry but you evolutionists tarred yourself with this brush, you will have to live with the results."

No, you creationists tarred biologists with this brush. As I have repeatedly said, and I am beginning to think that you are not debating in good faith, abiogenesis and creation is not in the Theory of Evolution. IT IS NOT THERE! You are creating the essential strawman that makes your interpretation of Scripture palatable to you. Biology doesn't give a hoot about creation. Biology deals with the life we have and have had on this planet.

"If ToE pretends to explain speciation, then at what species does it start the story? Frogs? Lizards? Trilobites? Algae? Funny you guys massage this theory to AVOID and EVADE the evidence of the discoveries of science since Darwin. "

ToE does not "pretend" to explain speciation. It explains speciation insofar as our knowledge goes at this time.

ToE postulates that a single cell is the common ancestor of all life on Earth. This is a Theory incorporated in the ToE called the Theory of Common Descent. There is not as much evidence for this as there is for the fact of evolution. There are other explanations that could work, but so far all indications are that a single cell developed into all the life you see on Earth. God was pretty smart to be able to do this, wasn't he?

Uh, it is you and your buddies at AIG that ignore the science. I mean, really, you can't even accept the fact that biology doesn't care about initial creation and it is not in the ToE.

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