Posted on 10/12/2004 8:42:25 PM PDT by knak
up on drudge:
WASH TIMES: U.S. security officials are investigating a recent intelligence report that a group of 25 Chechen terrorists illegally entered the United States from Mexico... Members of the group, said to be wearing backpacks, secretly traveled to northern Mexico and crossed into a mountainous part of Arizona, Gertz to report in Pgae One Splash, newsroom sources tell DRUDGE...
But we need open borders, cheap illegal labor, illegitimate votes, and Mexico is our friend.
Your tone is condescending. This is a democracy. Those in government are accountable to the people. We have a right and a duty to question the policies of those who govern. But your response to such questions is that we should all be quiet unless we are willing to work in the government. This has always been the liberal line, but now some GOPers in government are using it as well. According to some, we do not have the right to criticize the government unless we are IN the government. So this is what passes for conservatism today? God help us.
No argument from me.
This is the kind of Kantian nonesense that has infected our churches and schools. Just because we can't apply something all of the time, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to exercise PRUDENCE and make things better than they were.
I think you've mistaken me for somebody else. You are apparently assuming that I have said we should do nothing when I have done no such thing. If I have made a point that you disagree with, then please bring up that particular point with your rebuttal. Don't simply paint me with a broad brush without giving me something to work with.
Don't use liberal arguments.
What "liberal" arguments are you talking about? I deny using any liberal arguments of any kind in this thread.
...regarding your post #71...you can lump in 98% of the Republicans into the spineless group you despise so much (Democrats).
Both parties are EQUALLY complicit in this outrage. And sad to say, our fearless leader GWB STILL does nothing about this mess.
Two words: Executive order.
We need to try our damndest to seal off all areas of our border BETWEEN legal border crossings....
This was a leak to influence the public ahead of the debate.
To get the Pres base worked up into believing Kerry and his NY elite media would protect us better.
Unfortuately, many here fall for it everytime.
I thought I was talking about corruption in the Soviet bloc during the Cold War and in the Middle East during our current contretemps, not domestic corruption. But go ahead and pursue that red herring if you wish.
Your Great Leap forward in the Mexican economy will be a loooonnng time coming.
It could theoretically come a lot sooner than simply building an ineffectual wall around our country will.
At least asgardshill is on record with a willingness to support five thousand additional Border Patrol operatives.
Heck, make it 10,000 if you wish. I don't think that anybody here disagrees that we could be doing more to control immigration and terrorists coming into our country. Where we differ is the method.
In a game of inches that could make the difference. Now American civilization is saved !! Thanks asgardshill !!
Sarcasm duly noted and dismissed. Good day.
I disagree.
This is a democracy.
No, its a republic. If we can keep it.
(Civics 101 recitation snipped)
But your response to such questions is that we should all be quiet unless we are willing to work in the government.
I deny saying that.
This has always been the liberal line, but now some GOPers in government are using it as well. According to some, we do not have the right to criticize the government unless we are IN the government.
I deny saying that too.
So this is what passes for conservatism today? God help us.
He does.
However, for the sake of argument, let us suppose that you are correct. So what? How does this change the objective fact that the border is undefended for most of its length?
Furthermore, how does this change the reality of what asgardshill said? According to him/her, unless we are IN the government, we do not have the right to criticize those in government? I hope all of my fellow Freepers (posters and lurkers) are paying close attention to the argument and excuses offered here by the likes of asgardshill.
According to the Constitution, we have the right to to "petition the Government for a redress of grievances." I guess this doesn't apply if you argue with asgardshill or those who agree with him. So, to defend the indefensible, some GOPers are willing to trash the Constitution.
And what programs would those be? Can you name any?
Those that help the Mexican economy (not "subsidize" but "help") stand on its own two feet and provide jobs to its own citizens, for one. People that are making a decent wage in their own country are far less likely to want to pull up stakes and come to ours.
We also have a Border Patrol - you might disagree with any positive accounts of its effectiveness, but we do have one. We also have citizens who are being educated every day about what a terrorist is and how to report suspicious activities to the authorities. Money, lots of money, has been allocated by this administration for general homeland security use.
Bush is in no way ignoring this problem. We might disagree on his methods, but he can't credibly be accused of ignorance when it comes to homeland security. And I am instantly suspicious of those who do attack him on this supposedly conservative web site on this issue.
Oh I'll admit we need not serve in the government in order to throw a tizzy over govenrment mismanagement, inaction, corruption, and so forth.
I believe law enforcement officials in this country are a bit more polite than in other countries because we are armed citizens.
And back to a more direct theme of this thread, we need to scream that immigration numbers be cut back and that we take additional measures to curtail terrorist cell operations. And those measures should include ...
1.Drastically fewer student visas (and thus less Islamic militant cheering sections in places like Tuscaloosa, Alabama and other college towns.)
2. A much better patrolled Mexican border.
3. A beefed up Canadian border.
4. Improved and expanded inspections of incoming ships and watercraft.
5. No more UN refugee agreements where we take large number of immigrants at one time (as in the case of the 15,000 Somalians).
Jeff, the terrorists are not idiots. They're most likely using these other avenues already, simply because the probability of interception is significantly lower. And Canada, unlike Mexico, is willing to give them free money.
Yes it is very unfortunate. Fortunately, however, we know the blowhards here who salivate at the prospect of bashing Bush over this.
It sounds like a leak from an intell source, who knows how high. The WT will print all leaks.
The only objective fact right now is that this is a Presidential election between Bush and Kerry.
It is an election between a Kerry/UN/Soros ticket, the NTYWPABCNBCCBSHOLLYWOODCNNMSNBCCNBSNPRNEWSWEEKTIMENAACPNOWAARPGLADAFLCIOFRANCEACADEMIA, AND THE ACLU,
And us.
I have not read all the posts between you an asgardshill, but I assume if he/she is on this board, that he/she respects the constitution.
As do I, and if Bush wins, I would expect and hope that this issue is debated fully among Americans.
I am right of the Pres on many issues, but Kerry and his supporters, their culture and ideology are repulsive and resemble nothing of what this country was founded on has thrived on for over 200 years.
I urge all here not to take you eye off the ball.
If you criticize the Bush administration, you should be quiet, unless you are in the government (DHS or otherwise). And now, if you criticize the Bush administration, you are "supposedly" not a conservative.
Your true colors are coming through.
I have seen this before on this sit3 from some people.
The fact of the matter is that Bush is NOT doing enough. Kerry would do nothing, granted. But Bush needs to do more. People's lives depend upon it.
Furthermore, I am wholheartedly in favor of supporting the Border Patrol. It is the Bush administration that has put the clamps on the Border Patrol. In California, the Bush Administration stopped the first sweeps of illegals done in years because it offended activist groups. Go ask those in the Border Patrol what they think of the support they get fromn Washington.
Get your facts straight before you start spouting nonesense.
Bush is not doing enough and I would bet that most people on this CONSERVATIVE site know that and are not fooled by your talking points.
By the way, are you getting paid on G-time for posting this nonesense?
Bush is better than Kerry. With Kerry, we are in grave danger. With Bush, we might survive. Bush is better, but we can do better than Bush. But, Bush is all we have, so, yes, he needs to win.
After the election, however, and certainly in the 2008 primaries, pro-illegal immigration candidates deserve to lose.
Of course, let us hope that the bad guys give us an opportunity to have an abstract discussion about his as opposed to a concrete discussion much sooner.
It took me last night and and hour this morning to read through all the replies to this post.
I have no doubt that Chechens could be in this country illegally. Furthermore, I believe that our border could be more secure. It is possible. Can we keep everyone from sneaking in? No, however we can make a huge dent in the human tide running through our Southern border. We just need to actually try a little harder.
Canada and Mexico are not our allies, imo. We need to step up and begin enforcing our Northern border. While those shitheads are building a memorial to honor Americans who turned tail and ran, we can shore up our defensive positions.
I'll probably get flamed, but I don't care. I'm flameproof these days. Islam has declared war on Western Civilization. We need to counter with a modern day Crusade. Deputize Americans and arm them to voluntarily patrol the borders. I think we could scare up body armor for these folks. If we have a large volunteer force, no one can scream about tax dollars.
I also have a plan about who will pick our fruit and lettuce. Chain gangs. Why should we subsidize criminals when they could be working?
And I allegedly said this where? Please post proof of these idiotic accusations you made.
Your true colors are coming through.
Yes, lightish gray with some light blue highlights. (See my profile).
The fact of the matter is that Bush is NOT doing enough. Kerry would do nothing, granted. But Bush needs to do more. People's lives depend upon it.
Switch to the decaf. Seriously.
Furthermore, I am wholheartedly in favor of supporting the Border Patrol. It is the Bush administration that has put the clamps on the Border Patrol. In California, the Bush Administration stopped the first sweeps of illegals done in years because it offended activist groups. Go ask those in the Border Patrol what they think of the support they get fromn Washington.
I don't seem to recall any posts in this thread that substantially disagree with your point. I can definitely argue specifics though - what is your basis for your accusation that Bush personally stopped "the first sweeps of illegals done in years" due to him not wanting to offend activist groups? Post proof if you have it.
More could be done - more SHOULD be done. We simply disagree on the specifics.
Get your facts straight before you start spouting nonesense.
Post proof of your remarkably antagonistic assumptions about me personally before you make more of an ass out of yourself than you already have.
Bush is not doing enough and I would bet that most people on this CONSERVATIVE site know that and are not fooled by your talking points.
What "talking points" are those?
By the way, are you getting paid on G-time for posting this nonesense?
Have you stopped beating your wife?
Good day to you.
You are a liar. I never said that. And you are a coward as well - you posted this without pinging me to the post.
Hello StPaulieGirl!
BTTT!
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