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Pope Responds to Rush Limbaugh
Catholic in the Ozarks ^ | December 16, 2013

Posted on 12/16/2013 3:41:05 PM PST by NYer

[CC-BY-SA-2.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)] via Wikimedia Commons
Pope Francis
presidencia.gov.ar
If Rush Limbaugh were to say this Monday that his accusation of Marxism in the papacy provoked a response from the pope himself, he would be 100% right.  Pope Francis responded to the following question in his latest interview with Andrea Tornielli (Vatican Insider)...
TORNIELLI: Some of the passages in the “Evangelii Gaudium” attracted the criticism of ultraconservatives in the USA. As a Pope, what does it feel like to be called a “Marxist”? 
POPE FRANCIS: “The Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.”
The term "ultraconservatives in the USA" is umbrella speak for Rush Limbaugh and those who followed his lead in the right-wing media.  If you would like to see Limbaugh's monologue that led to this little exchange between "golden EIB microphone" and the Chair of Peter, I have linked to a video here in a previous article.

In Limbaugh's own words: "this is just pure Marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope."  Pope Francis responds in his own words: "The Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended." 

There is it folks.  Marxism is wrong.  Period.  Now we shouldn't be surprised about this should we?  The popes have been railing against Marxism for 120 years now.  Why should this one be any different.  The Holy Father goes on, so as to show a little charity toward Mr. Limbaugh and gang.  "I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended."  He is not offended by the accusation.  Why? Because he has met many good (well intentioned) people in his life who are Marxists, so he doesn't view this as an insult.

Now that's pretty gracious.  I wish I could say I felt the same way when people call me a Marxist (and they do).  I tend to get a little upset when they do this, because not only is it untrue (I'm not a Marxist), but as an American, the very accusation seems rather "un-American" to me -- an insult to my nationality.  The pope is not burdened with the same nationality complex as I, so he doesn't take it in an offensive way.  Of course you're probably wondering why anyone would call me a Marxist in the first place.  I suppose they call me a Marxist for the same reason Rush Limbaugh said "this is just pure Marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope." 

They lack imagination, and they are uneducated on this matter.

Yep, I said it.  I just called Rush Limbaugh unimaginative and uneducated -- on this issue.  Here is why I said it, and I pointed this out in my previous article.  I am a Distributist, and Distributism is an economic model that comes directly from papal teaching, stretching back 120 years to Pope Leo XIII papal encyclical Rerum Novarum.  Multiple encyclicals have been written on the topic since then, and each one carried far more weight than Pope Francis' recent apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium.  So, you thought Pope Francis' words were politically charged? Wait till you read what previous popes have said, with more authority and weight of official Church teaching.  Here are just a few quotes...
"Hence by degrees it has come to pass that Working Men have been given over, isolated and defenseless, to the callousness of employers and the greed of unrestrained competition." -- Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, #3 
"On the one side there is the party which holds the power because it holds the wealth; which has in its grasp all labor and all trade; which manipulates for its own benefit and its own purposes all the sources of supply, and which is powerfully represented in the councils of the State itself. On the other side there is the needy and powerless multitude, sore and suffering, always ready for disturbance." -- Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, #47 
"Just as the unity of human society cannot be built upon “class” conflict, so the proper ordering of economic affairs cannot be left to the free play of rugged competition.  From this source, as from a polluted spring, have proceeded all the errors of the `individualistic’ school.  This school, forgetful or ignorant of the social and moral aspects of economic activities, regarded these as completely free and immune from any intervention by public authority, for they would have in the market place and in unregulated competition a principle of self-direction more suitable for guiding them than any created intellect which might intervene.  Free competition, however, though justified and quite useful within certain limits, cannot be an adequate controlling principle in economic affairs.  This has been abundantly proved by the consequences that have followed from the free rein given to these dangerous individualistic ideas." -- Pope Pius XI, Quadragesimo Anno, #88 
"Such a society ["a society of free work, of enterprise and of participation"] is not directed against the market, but demands that the market be appropriately controlled by the forces of society and by the State, so as to guarantee that the basic needs of the whole of society are satisfied." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #35 
"It is the task of the State to provide for the defense and preservation of common goods such as the natural and human environments, which cannot be safeguarded simply by market forces." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #40 
"There is a risk that a radical capitalistic ideology could spread which refuses even to consider these problems, in the a priori belief that any attempt to solve them is doomed to failure, and which blindly entrusts their solution to the free development of market forces." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #42 
"The Western countries… run the risk of seeing [the collapse of Communism] as a one-sided victory of their own economic system, and thereby failing to make necessary corrections in that system." -- Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, #56 
"Business management cannot concern itself only with the interests of the proprietors, but must also assume responsibility for all the other stakeholders who contribute to the life of the business: the workers, the clients, the suppliers of various elements of production, the community of reference." -- Pope Benedict XVI, Caritas in Veritate #40 
"In the face of unrelenting growth of global interdependence, there is a strongly felt need, even in the midst of a global recession, for a reform of the United Nations Organization, and likewise of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the family of nations can acquire real teeth. One also senses the urgent need to find innovative ways of implementing the principle of responsibility to protect and of giving poorer nations an effective voice in shared decision-making. This seems necessary in order to arrive at a political, juridical and economic order which can increase and give direction to international cooperation for the development of all peoples in solidarity. To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need for a true world political authority." -- Pope Benedict XVI, Caritas in Veritate #67
When put into the context of previous papal teaching, (teaching that has far more weighty authority I might add, because these are papal encyclicals, not mere apostolic exhortations), it would seem that Pope Francis' remarks are quite mild in comparison.  This is papal teaching that goes back 120 years!  Are they all Marxists?  I suppose by Rush Limbaugh's criteria they might be.  In which case Catholic listeners of Rush might find themselves having to choose between the "doctor of democracy" and the Vicar of Christ.  Or maybe it's not that simple.  Maybe Rush is actually wrong about something, and if he is, well that just changes everything.

The truth is, Rush Limbaugh is not alone, and this article is not intended to pick on him exclusively.  There are many more conservative talk-radio show hosts out there, and a good number of them follow Rush's lead on stories.  This is added to a plethora of print media and Internet outlets that likewise share Limbaugh's opinion on a great many things.  Then of course there is the popular (and somewhat Leftist) mainstream news media. While these obviously don't agree with the "all-knowing, all-sensing, all-everything Maha Rushie," they do however share his view of Pope Francis as a liberal Marxist, but to them that's considered a positive thing.  I assert here that they are all wrong.  Why?  Because they are talking heads in the media who have never studied papal social teaching on economics before.  They've never bothered to research this, and what little investigation they might have done has been coloured by their own biases and limited world view.  So I'm going to simplify matters for all of them right now, and lay it out in plain and simple English for them to absorb.

The popes are not Marxists.  The popes are not socialists.  The popes are not fascists.  The popes are not Keynesians.  The popes are not Austrians.  The popes are not supply-siders.  The popes are not capitalists at all.  The popes are none of these things.  They have no economic model they follow.  Rather, they make the principles upon which economic models are built, and the only economic model built on papal teaching is distributism. 

In this loose sense we could say the popes are distributists, but we should keep in mind, the popes are not economic ideologues.  They leave such matters to those who can formulate such models.  Distributism comes from the popes.  The popes are not literally distributists.  Does that make sense?

Now the word distributism does not mean "re-distribution" as is the common misconception.  These are two completely different concepts.  Redistribution falls into the Keynesian model of economics, and is often a key component to other economic models as well, such as socialism and Marxism.  What we are talking about is taking money from one group of people and giving it to another.  While virtually all forms of government engage in this to some degree, that is not what is meant by "distributism."  Rather, what is meant by "distributism" is simply this.  The most just economic system is one in which productive property (small business, etc.) is the most widely distributed to the most people possible.  Distributism is about small family-run business.  In a distributist economy, small business is the boss.  It is the backbone of the economy. Distributists envision a world where the majority of commerce is exchanged through small business.  It's a world were nearly any man can "become his own boss."  Realising that some forms of business need to be much larger in order to function, Distributists call for the widespread creation of cooperative corporations, wherein the workers own a share (and a vote) in the management of a company.  This is the core of distributism, but it doesn't stop there.  There is much more in the way of trade guilds, licensing and small government based on subsidiarity.  Much of this will sound foreign to conservative talk-radio in America, and that's too bad, because there are a whole lot of "conservative" things to talk about here. 

I invite Rush and gang to do a little more homework.  Now that you've been graciously answered by the pope, Rush, you owe it to him to figure out what he's talking about.  I invite you to take a look at this Wikipedia article on distributism and then read a few articles on The Distributist Review.


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic
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To: trisham
Let me tell you something

I'm sorry about your problems. The point is that you had time to listen when you agreed with the guy but didn't when he might say something that may impugn the Popes wisdom (or lack of) in such matters.

21 posted on 12/16/2013 4:00:23 PM PST by BipolarBob
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To: NYer
This entire article is spin.

Rush called the Pope out, and this is the Pope's way of backtracking.

There have been many attempts by the Left to "moderate" the Pope, as if he agrees with some of their policies.

That's why Time named him Person of the Year, and why some liberals have fawned over him for supposedly having progressive leanings.

22 posted on 12/16/2013 4:02:03 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Governor Sarah Heath Palin for President of the United States in 2016)
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To: onona

All one has to do is remember that Pope Francis is from South America.


23 posted on 12/16/2013 4:04:49 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ConservativeInPA; NYer
Please, someone explain to me HOW Rome cannot be the ULTIMATE Religious/Political system the world has ever known. After all, isn't that the whole point of Rome trying to bring about the kingdom of God on earth? A place from where He will govern the nations, and His followers will be a kingdom of priests? It's ALL about politics. Always has been, always will be. Unfortunately for ROme, they are NOT Israel. Never have been. Never will be. And CHRIST is going to set up His Kingdom, not Rome. It will be centered in Jerusalem, just as He said. And His 12 Apostles will be sitting on twelve thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

If Rome did not have visions of heading the governments of the world, why is it a sovereign nation, with ambassadors, an army, concordants that nations must sign, a special seat reserved for it at the UN, etc. She functions as a government, down to her own flag and coinage. What's the point if she is nothing more than a religious institution?

24 posted on 12/16/2013 4:04:54 PM PST by smvoice (HELP! I'm trapped inside this body and I can't get out!)
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To: NYer
"But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people ..."
This Pope has foot in mouth disease.
25 posted on 12/16/2013 4:05:10 PM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: BipolarBob
No, that is not a correct assumption, in fact, I very rarely listen to Rush. I've read here some of what he's said lately, and although I respect his opinion, I simply have no energy to be upset any more than I already am.

Nothing that you, Rush or anyone else says will affect my opinion of this Pope. I have a mind of my own.

26 posted on 12/16/2013 4:05:55 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer

” They have no economic model they follow. Rather, they make the principles upon which economic models are built, and the only economic model built on papal teaching is distributism.”

This is exactly the point that got missed in this so-called debate. Christianity does not call for any specific economic system.


27 posted on 12/16/2013 4:07:18 PM PST by Lou Budvis
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To: trisham
I listened to Rush for a short time today, and when the subject of Pope Francis arose, I turned off the radio. Rush is a very intelligent man, but..

Ditto (no pun intended) but I kept the program on. Rush tends to view things in political terms. It is challenging for secularists to comprehend that when the pope speaks, he addresses a global audience. Rush continues to view the topic as if were addressed to Americans. What's most disappointing, though, is that Rush continues to cite msm sources for his arguments, rather than delving into the actual document or catholic sources. Moreover, I don't think he is familiar with the church's teaching on subsidiarity.

28 posted on 12/16/2013 4:07:47 PM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: miss marmelstein
I feel that the previous couple of popes were a lot clearer on where they stood. This one seems to need a lot more clarifications.
29 posted on 12/16/2013 4:08:49 PM PST by Moorings
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To: miss marmelstein

PJ2 certainly wasn’t quiet about communism in Poland.

Likewise, anyone who chooses to worship capitalism will be disappointed.


30 posted on 12/16/2013 4:12:01 PM PST by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: NYer
Ditto (no pun intended) but I kept the program on. Rush tends to view things in political terms. It is challenging for secularists to comprehend that when the pope speaks, he addresses a global audience. Rush continues to view the topic as if were addressed to Americans. What's most disappointing, though, is that Rush continues to cite msm sources for his arguments, rather than delving into the actual document or catholic sources. Moreover, I don't think he is familiar with the church's teaching on subsidiarity.

****************************

Well said, and I agree. Imho, this subject is a complicated one, and really requires a more extensive examination than is possible for Rush, who has hundreds of stories to consider daily.

31 posted on 12/16/2013 4:12:25 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer

The Pope and Rush...Too funny....


32 posted on 12/16/2013 4:12:46 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: ConservativeInPA
Rush went too far and religion and economic systems do not mix.

AHHHH, so it's blasphemy to question anything said by the Pope..........got it!

As a side note, if Rush was so far off base then why did the Pope find it necessary to clarify his statements?

And furthermore, do you really think the Pope was actually responding to Rush's statement or were the statements embellished by the MSM in order to generate a disclaimer from the Pope?

33 posted on 12/16/2013 4:13:01 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Miss Muffit suffered from arachnophobia.....)
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To: NYer
“The Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.”

What an awful thing to say.

"Pol Pot was a great guy over noodles."

"Chairman Mao was charming and had a heart of gold in spite of murdering 50,000,000 people with his genuinely humane ideas."

"Stalin was a great leader of his people in wartime."

"Kim Jong Un has a fine appreciation for opera, as do I. So I'm not offended to be compared to him."

Jeepers. Can we ask for some more moral distance between good people with anti-human destructive murderous ideologies and the freaking POPE?

I don't care that he may later clarify his way out of those two sentences. The proximate conflation demonstrates an inability to cleanly segregate ideas for the purposes of TEACHING. smh....

34 posted on 12/16/2013 4:14:41 PM PST by Uncle Miltie (I Love 0bamaCare! It proves government incompetence forever.)
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To: BipolarBob
I wonder how many times in the bible Christ spoke about Caesar, I can only think of one, render unto Caesar that which belong to Caesar and to God what is Gods...why does any pope speak of Caesars at all. If I remember correctly, the pope, bishops and lay people are to spread the gospel of the good news, not discuss economics and feel that he has to respond to some guy that talks on the radio. No one was insulting him personally, just commenting on the fact that the pope sounded like a marxist. I think he was insulted thats why he answered Rush. Silly really.
35 posted on 12/16/2013 4:15:48 PM PST by goat granny
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To: NYer

I like Rush but his thinking was revealed as sloppy when he made the Marxist comment about Pope Francis. Capitalism can’t be made into an idol which can’t be criticized. So if someone criticizes the excesses of capitalism, which Blessed John Paul II referred to as “cutthroat capitalism”, he or she is a Marxist? I think Rush hurt himself more with that comment than he realizes. There’s a century of papal words condemning Marxism and many Christians have given their lives in opposition to Marxism.


36 posted on 12/16/2013 4:16:10 PM PST by MDLION ("Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:5)
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To: ConservativeInPA

As a follow up to my previous comment, what does the MSM do best? Create controversy where none really exists in order to generate readership............


37 posted on 12/16/2013 4:17:41 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Miss Muffit suffered from arachnophobia.....)
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To: NVDave
It's that old Catholic thing...Hate the sin, love the sinner....

It's a ridiculous phrase....so I should love hookers and homos and abortionists and murderers the same as my children??

38 posted on 12/16/2013 4:18:57 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Lou Budvis
"Christianity does not call for any specific economic system."

Nonetheless, the demonstration of the various economic systems in the history of the world upon mankind is not in question.

Can we ask that the Pope extend his sure declaration that Marxism is "wrong" to the people who espouse it?

39 posted on 12/16/2013 4:18:59 PM PST by Uncle Miltie (I Love 0bamaCare! It proves government incompetence forever.)
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To: NYer

I have met many Nazis in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.


40 posted on 12/16/2013 4:20:38 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (Obamacare: You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
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