Posted on 10/05/2009 11:22:44 AM PDT by Gamecock
An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake. The shroud, measuring 14 feet, 4 inches by 3 feet, 7 inches bears the image, eerily reversed like a photographic negative, of a crucified man some believers say is Christ. "We have shown that is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud," Luigi Garlaschelli, who is due to illustrate the results at a conference on the para-normal this weekend in northern Italy, said on Monday. A professor of organic chemistry at the University of Pavia, Garlaschelli made available to Reuters the paper he will deliver and the accompanying comparative photographs.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
And what words in Luke are you referencing?
DR. E: I don't know why God chose Mary other than she was a nice Jewish virgin who loved the Lord.
WAGGLEBEE: Does your redacted Bible no longer contain the first chapter of the Gospel of St. Luke? Gabriel makes in very clear why God chose the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Your turn. Scripture?
DR. E: I don't know why God chose Mary other than she was a nice Jewish virgin who loved the Lord.
WAGGLEBEE: Does your redacted Bible no longer contain the first chapter of the Gospel of St. Luke? Gabriel makes in very clear why God chose the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Your turn. Scripture?
26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. 33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? 35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
1Cr 1:22-23 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
Thank you, Harley. Your question is beautiful and glorifies the Triune God.
26: And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27: To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28: And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29: And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30: And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31: And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32: He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34: Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Mary was "highly favoured" by God and therefore "the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."
Mary was "favoured" (chosen) by God to bear the Christ child and in doing so was "blessed" (freely gifted) with an indelible role in Christianity as the human vessel that brought the Christ child into the world.
A simple consideration of these verses in Luke compared to the idolatry heaped on this simple Jewish girl ("Co-Redeemer," "Dispensatrix of all graces," "the new Eve," "Mother of the church," etc.) reveals the depth of Rome's paganism. To teach children to kneel to statues of a human being is so repugnant to the Scriptures that if it were me, I would fear God's wrath with every "Hail, Mary."
No king but Christ. No Mediator but Christ. No Redeemer but Christ.
Fascinating interpretation, wrong, but still fascinating.
Nevertheless, our differing beliefs about the Blessed Virgin Mary have NOTHING to do with this thread.
I believe it is possible that the Shroud of Turin is the burial shroud of our Lord, you do not and that is fine. NOBODY has ever suggested that the Shroud is an article of faith.
It is beyond dispute that Jesus Christ was buried in a shroud, it is also beyond dispute that He had the Power to impose His Image on the shroud if that was His Will.
The argument against the Shroud is that it is a medieval forgery, my main question to that is, if medieval artists had the ability to create photo-quality images on a piece of cloth WHERE are the other examples of this talent?
For the record, that WOULD be an anathema. Who told you such nonsense? It certainly didn't come from the Catholic Church.
It came from THOUSANDS of Roman Catholic websites which say a whole lot more than that about Mary's supernatural powers.
It came from the RCC catechism which has been posted dozens of times by me and others to show the RCC considers Mary to be an active participant in Christ's redemption of the world.
It came from the words of John Paul II who blatantly called Mary a "Co-Redeemer."
It came from Padre Pio who is about to be canonized who stresses over and over that Mary is a "Co-Redeemer" and a "Dispensatrix of all graces."
If these sentences bother you, good! They should. Work to rid your church of this idolatry. God will be glorified as Mary decreases from your sight and Christ appears.
Then post a link with those exact words since you are attributing it as a direct quote.
But what would it mean if the shroud was proven to be Christ's actual burial shroud?
What would that matter other than an artifact of history has been located?
If He imposed His Image on the shroud would He have done it deliberately or would it have happened by accident?
“Then post a link with those exact words since you are attributing it as a direct quote.”
Here. Try this link, one among thousands.
http://www.mgardens.org/HSMGP.html
~~”Thus, filled with divine grace and raised to union with God, Mary, in her immaculate purity, utter humility, and total fidelity to God’s word, prompting and bestowal, shared in the divine procreativity in her Divine Maternity of God the Son incarnate as Jesus; SHARED AS CO-REDEEMER IN JESUS’ SACRIFICIAL REDEMPTION OF THE WORLD; and SHARES, AS UNIVERSAL MEDIATRIX, in his sending of the divine grace, light, wisdom and power of God, the Holy Spirit to the world - for its culmination in the building and coming of God’s Peaceable Kingdom, and its transfiguration on the last day, with the universal resurrection, into the eternal New Heaven and New Earth.”~~
This is what is being taught to Roman Catholics and believed by Roman Catholics. Repent.
To what end would Christ have “imposed His image on the shroud?” For what purpose?
I note you capitalized “Image.” That should tell you something about taking your eye off the prize.
We believe and are saved by grace through faith, both of which are unseen but real. Unlike the shroud, which is seen and not real.
This is what you attributed as a direct quote:
“Mary is on the cross with Christ helping Christ to redeem His sheep”
If you are purporting it to be a factual teaching of the Church it is up to YOU to provide proof of it.
I can think of any number of reasons, but it WOULD NOT have been accidental.
I note you capitalized “Image.”
That was a typo.
We believe and are saved by grace through faith, both of which are unseen but real.
The Gospels and early chapters of Acts demonstrate that this was not always the case.
I have also linked you to soon-to-be-sainted Padre Pio's idiotic rantings about a hundred times. For the sake of clarity, HERE IT IS AGAIN...
"...according to the teaching of St. Pio of Pietrelcina, we should be eternally grateful to "our dear Coredemptrix" and to our "Mediatrix and Dispensatrix of all graces.""
And of course, there are the words of your pope as outlined in this piece by a Roman Catholic scholar...
The Pope's new apostolic letter "Rosarium Virginis Mariae" (The Rosary of the Virgin Mary) has rekindled interest in Our Lady's role in the life of Christ and in salvation history. Mark Miravalle, a leading proponent for having Mary declared Co-redemptrix, offered his views with ZENIT. Miravalle is professor of theology and Mariology at Franciscan University of Steubenville and president of Vox Populi Mariae Mediatrici...
This is what the majority of Roman Catholics believe. Where are they learning this? Are they learning lies? Who are their teachers if not the Roman Catholic church and its representatives?
I've also posted links to the RCC catechism which use these same words and images which is obviously why these Roman Catholics feel free to repeat this theory of Mary as co-redeemer and dispensatrix of all graces as fact.
They hold a lie in their right hand.
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