House drops Confederate Flag ban for veterans cemeteries

politico.com ^ | 6/23/16 | Matthew Nussbaum

[ColdOne]

A measure to bar confederate flags from cemeteries run by the Department of Veterans Affairs was removed from legislation passed by the House early Thursday.

The flag ban was added to the VA funding bill in May by a vote of 265-159, with most Republicans voting against the ban. But Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) both supported the measure. Ryan was commended for allowing a vote on the controversial measure, but has since limited what amendments can be offered on the floor.

[PeaRidge]

Brojoke would have us believe: “Three weeks later, when the Confederate Congress formally declared war on the United States, May 6, 1861, it sealed it's own fate — unconditional surrender.”

Confederate Congress declared war?

Would you cite the source for this.

[HangUpNow]

The Tenth Amendment gave the individual states the power to secede. They didn't need a Constitutional Convention with states that were already violating the written word of the Constitution. What good was the word of those Northern states? Fool me once, etc.

Plus, of course, there was the tariff situation. The old tariff was already extracting many millions of dollars annually from the South for the benefit of Northern manufacturers, Northern workers, and Northern port businesses involved in trade. The Warehousing Act resulted in concentrating import facilities in New York City where importers could store items tariff free in warehouses for two years until they were sold (from memory).

Regardless of where in the country the imported goods ultimately went, the tariff on those goods arriving in New York was collected in New York.

Succinct but devastating rebuttal for those who can't shake off our K-12 indoctrination.

[HangUpNow]

Brojoke would have us believe: “Three weeks later, when the Confederate Congress formally declared war on the United States, May 6, 1861, it sealed it's own fate — unconditional surrender.”

Confederate Congress declared war?

Like I said, Joe has dipped into the annals of Mad Mag "history."

[HangUpNow]

+100.

But...but...Wait -- Didn't you learn the simple history lesson that Fort Sumter = PEARL HARBOR??!

[HangUpNow]

Rustbucket has launched ‘OPERATION: Midway’ here on this CW thread.

[rustbucket]

I hugely enjoy it and appreciate the opportunity to defend my country (USA) and the political party (Republicans) that I believe are its backbone.

I suspect most on these threads heartily agree with your sentiments. I know I do.

[DiogenesLamp]

Well gee -- that's mighty bourgeoisie of you. Are you sure you want that kind of secret leaking out to Buffy and Skippy? At least Teddy fought institutional corruption.

That is another extremely relevant point. Yes, Teddy Roosevelt is known for interfering with the Crony Capitalism that had been going on since.... well.... since Lincoln.

The Robber Barons seemed to think they could influence the government in whatever way suited them. Rockefeller tried to negotiate through the back door with Teddy Roosevelt by sending "my man to negotiate with your man" but Teddy wasn't having any of it.

Post Civil War America was rampant with abuse by New England Robber Barons. The coal strikes and Unionization occurring in West Virginia was the consequence of the price monopoly that New York captains of industry had imposed on the Coal industry.

Again, where did they get such power? Why did it so heavily manifest itself after the Civil War?

Because the Civil War was where it began.

Today we are still paying for the tyranny, social, and economic aftermath of Lincoln's template of dictatorship and feral overreach, fake reasons for the CW, and subsequent routine shredding of the USCON by Wilson, FDR, LBJ, 0blah-blah, and yes, Dubya Bush.

And this is a point many people do not grasp when the topic of the "Civil War" comes up. We are still suffering from the long term consequences of that conflict to this very day.

Washington and New York still have an unholy alliance that pits the financial interests of the New England power brokers against the rest of the nation. This movement towards "Globalization" is an example of it.

[HangUpNow]

Great arguments and observations, DL.

For all of Teddy's expansion of the feral gimmint, he is to be lauded for his trademark integrity of standing up TO bullying -- of Crony Capitalist 'Robber-Barons' and Money-Changers (to which Lincoln folded like a cheap rug, ushering the age of the Sell-Out, Wilson bent over into a pretzel, and our "co-Presidents" -- Clintons turned into an art-form.)

As you remind us, the record certainly indicts a post CW Union (specifically, vampires from the North, more specifically, New England's cadre of olde monied elites) of rampant profiteering and opportunistic crooks. Funny how they profited from the blood of the new immigrants -- drafted immediately so they could spill *their* blood instead of the wealthy New Englanders' sons who would be the beneficiaries.

Proponents of Lincoln's "Union" -- retained only by a mass suicide mission and coercion -- still shout from their ivory towers, boasting of a "moral mandate" of a war that was NEVER fought over "slavery."

Post Civil War America was rampant with abuse by New England Robber Barons. The coal strikes and Unionization occurring in West Virginia was the consequence of the price monopoly that New York captains of industry had imposed on the Coal industry.

Again, where did they get such power? Why did it so heavily manifest itself after the Civil War?

Because the Civil War was where it began.

Bears repeating and contemplation. I say this as born and bred in the US northeast, in the belly of the beast. It probably took a good 125 years the buck-tooth, redneck, un-educated, un-cultured Bible-Belted South to catch up, economically. ITMT, the North began worshiping Dewey, Humanism, and itself; the South's "in-sophisticates" remained "backward" remained worshipers of the Lord.

[T]his is a point many people do not grasp when the topic of the "Civil War" comes up. We are still suffering from the long term consequences of that conflict to this very day.

Amen. "Yankee" values took over socially as well as in Academia. Had the South seceded, one wonders how much the Confederacy would have turned out with its Christian-heavy ethics, education system and values? Instead the North mandated Dewey and its Humanist-based culture and values.

Another observation -- who has the US gummint and its military depend on mightily to fight every subsequent war? THE SOUTH. The irony is not lost on those of us for whom REAL history is pertinent.

Washington and New York still have an unholy alliance that pits the financial interests of the New England power brokers against the rest of the nation. This movement towards "Globalization" is an example of it.

Absolutely true. And well stated.

[rustbucket]

[Hangup]: Today we are still paying for the tyranny, social, and economic aftermath of Lincoln's template of dictatorship and feral overreach, fake reasons for the CW, and subsequent routine shredding of the USCON by Wilson, FDR, LBJ, 0blah-blah, and yes, Dubya Bush.

[DiogenesLamp]: And this is a point many people do not grasp when the topic of the "Civil War" comes up. We are still suffering from the long term consequences of that conflict to this very day.

Washington and New York still have an unholy alliance that pits the financial interests of the New England power brokers against the rest of the nation. This movement towards "Globalization" is an example of it.

The current day power brokers of whom you speak are more widespread than just New England. Back in Civil War times, they were also in New York and Pennsylvania in addition to New England.

Some New Englanders have very parochial attitudes. I went to college in Massachusetts with New Englanders who had never been west of the Hudson River and saw no reason to go. For them, Boston was the hub of the universe.

[rustbucket]

Should have pinged you to post 749.

[HangUpNow]

Some New Englanders have very parochial attitudes.

I went to college in Massachusetts with New Englanders who had never been west of the Hudson River and saw no reason to go. For them, Boston was the hub of the universe.

I think we understand that; They are very parochial or provincial -- geographically as well as philosophically. Others may construe their thinking as "Cultish." Ot "Stepford Wife-ish." Not that it's all that uncommon for liberals/progs.

The current day power brokers of whom you speak are more widespread than just New England. Back in Civil War times, they were also in New York and Pennsylvania in addition to New England.

Understood, but as a result of that same "parochial" mind set that was established long ago, they remain snobby New England cultists at heart and in spirit where ever they wind up. Their "base" remains the NE corridor from their beloved Bahston to DC. I imagine your frat parties must have been chock full of one insufferable jerk after another.

[DiogenesLamp]

As you remind us, the record certainly indicts a post CW Union (specifically, vampires from the North, more specifically, New England's cadre of olde monied elites) of rampant profiteering and opportunistic crooks. Funny how they profited from the blood of the new immigrants -- drafted immediately so they could spill *their* blood instead of the wealthy New Englanders' sons who would be the beneficiaries.

During the riots of New York (a cleaned up version which can be glimpsed in the movie "Gangs of New York) the rioters were outraged that for $300.00 you could get out of being drafted. Slaves of the time cost $1,000.00 and they were incensed that their life's worth was regarded as less than that of a slave. To show their displeasure with the situation, they beat and lynched many blacks. (Just goes to show you how much brotherly love New Yorkers really had for the slaves.)

Who could afford the $300.00 to get themselves out of the war? Why the people who initiated it! The Wealthy and Elite of New England!

Bears repeating and contemplation. I say this as born and bred in the US northeast, in the belly of the beast. It probably took a good 125 years the buck-tooth, redneck, un-educated, un-cultured Bible-Belted South to catch up, economically. ITMT, the North began worshiping Dewey, Humanism, and itself; the South's "in-sophisticates" remained "backward" remained worshipers of the Lord.

This is another point I have long contemplated. Is it because the South became so poor that it kept turning to religion for comfort? Did this make them a more morally sensitive people?

I've also noticed a correlation in history between money and debauchery. It seems that the more wealth a community has, the more liberal it becomes. Look at a map of our cities today. You will find Liberalism concentrated in the Cities, and the more Wealthy they are, the deeper and more consistent is their adherence to Liberalism.

Amen. "Yankee" values took over socially as well as in Academia. Had the South seceded, one wonders how much the Confederacy would have turned out with its Christian-heavy ethics, education system and values? Instead the North mandated Dewey and its Humanist-based culture and values.

And I often wonder how much of that is the result of the "Cosmopolitan" World view of major trading cities such as New York, Boston and San Fransisco. I sense that repeated close contact with Foreign populations, thoughts and ideas may do quite a lot towards stripping off their own native culture and supplanting it with one of moral relativism.

I think the evidence leans towards many Socialist/ Moral-relativism ideas germinating in Europe, and being brought into this country through our ports.

Absolutely true. And well stated.

I have started to believe that the enemy we are facing today, is the same enemy both halves of the Nation faced in 1860. The Smug, Morally superior Wealthy Elite of New England, who felt that they needed to impose on the rest of us, not only their fiscal control, but their recently acquired Moral opinions. "Change" if you will.

Did not "Abortion" and "Gay Marriage" follow this same formula? Do not most left wing causes began among this cadre of people?

In the Book "Leftism Revisited"

Erik Von Kuehnelt-Leddihin relates that all left wing movements initially began with the wives and families of the elite and powerful.

His initial example was the "French Revolution." It was stirred up and financed by the wives and spoiled offspring of the Lords of France.

[DiogenesLamp]

The current day power brokers of whom you speak are more widespread than just New England. Back in Civil War times, they were also in New York and Pennsylvania in addition to New England.

Some New Englanders have very parochial attitudes. I went to college in Massachusetts with New Englanders who had never been west of the Hudson River and saw no reason to go. For them, Boston was the hub of the universe.

Yes, that is completely true. The "Cohort" of the elite, is now widespread and international in scope. I just read several articles recently which noted that this "Glitteratti" and Wealthy Elite consist of a "Cohort" from which they strive to keep others ejected. They live behind guarded walls and strong bars, and from there exhort the rest of us to indulge and tolerate the savages in our midst.

Los Angeleas certainly produces copious amounts of propaganda for the support of "The Cohort's " positions and for their efforts in getting and holding power.

They hate the rest of us here in "Flyover Country" and they most especially hate Christian White Males who will not buckle under to their Nietzschean efforts to remake our populace into one that is worthy of their "superior man."

[DiogenesLamp]

Their "base" remains the NE corridor from their beloved Bahston to DC. I imagine your frat parties must have been chock full of one insufferable jerk after another.

One of the major power centers of the world, and outlined by an oval in this map of financial power.

As noted during these discussions on the Civil War. They've jiggered the laws to favor themselves financially.

[rustbucket]

I imagine your frat parties must have been chock full of one insufferable jerk after another.

Actually no. There were students from all over the country in my fraternity. Our class in the fraternity included students from Arkansas, Tennessee, Florida, New Mexico, Washington state, Texas, Georgia, New York, Massachusetts, and overseas.

Some faculty members were liberal or even extremely liberal, at least in the humanities and economics departments and perhaps one or two other departments. The student body was more conservative. We were mostly science and engineering students. I watched a large crowd of students burn Fidel Castro in effigy on campus. The students recognized him for what he was, while the MSM of the day, like the NY Times, did not.

[x]

The North fought the war against the South to protect their money. Indeed, I perceive that the Globalist Elite of New York (they grew beyond merely trade with Europe) are this very day, the threat we are currently seeing against us.

Does Diogenes read over the stuff he types up? The plantation owners and the Confederate government were the globalists of the day. They were happy to make money supplying British industry with raw material at a time when the British Empire was seizing markets by force in India, the East Indies, China, and Africa.

They were willing to make their country subject to the ups and downs of the cotton market and dependent on British industrial production. That's globalism or globalization -- nineteenth century style. And they certainly were the Globalist Elite of the day.

Your whole argument about tariffs is based on the Nineteenth century version of globalization. You brag about the Southern ability to use the global economy to get around the tariffs that Northern manufacturers want to encourage home-grown industry. Where do you get off complaining about Globalists?

The plantation owners and Confederate elite thought that Britain would always be the workshop of the world, the Earth's spinner and weaver, and that they'd always be Britain's chief supplier of cotton. That was foolish.

The same empire and same process of globalization that they supported encouraged cotton production in other parts of the world -- and eventually, the cotton mills and clothing trade moved there. How come y'all didn't see any of that coming?

[BroJoeK]

x: "Does Diogenes read over the stuff he types up?"

No need, it's all fantasy anyway.
So why bother to proof-read?

[DiogenesLamp]

Does Diogenes read over the stuff he types up? The plantation owners and the Confederate government were the globalists of the day. They were happy to make money supplying British industry with raw material at a time when the British Empire was seizing markets by force in India, the East Indies, China, and Africa.

I think they *WANTED* to be the Globalists of the day, but with all shipping and profits funneling through New York's control, the only way they could *BE* the Globalists of the day, is to get away from that New York Control.

They were willing to make their country subject to the ups and downs of the cotton market and dependent on British industrial production. That's globalism or globalization -- nineteenth century style. And they certainly were the Globalist Elite of the day.

I think those ups and downs would have been more than offset by the absence of the FedGov and New York's cuts of their profits.

Your whole argument about tariffs is based on the Nineteenth century version of globalization. You brag about the Southern ability to use the global economy to get around the tariffs that Northern manufacturers want to encourage home-grown industry. Where do you get off complaining about Globalists?

You touch upon a point I was going to bring up, but hadn't yet taken the opportunity. Had the Secession movement been successful and made Charleston a port city comparable or exceeding that of New York, we would today be dealing with the consequences of the Global elite operating out of Charleston, rather than New York. I doubt that would be any consolation.

On the other hand, if the commerce split between the two, perhaps the money concentrations would never become so great that people would become that arrogant?

The same empire and same process of globalization that they supported encouraged cotton production in other parts of the world -- and eventually, the cotton mills and clothing trade moved there. How come y'all didn't see any of that coming?

I think after their facilities, their fortunes, their lands and their workforce was destroyed, pretty much everyone saw that coming, they just couldn't do anything about it.

[DiogenesLamp]

No need, it's all fantasy anyway.

Fantasy is the notion that a Nation founded on the God given principle of Independence, should think it appropriate to fight against other people's right to Independence.

[DiogenesLamp]

Link to Urban Hipster "Cloud People" and the how they view us "Dirt People."

Cosmopolitan elites like to kid themselves about their love of universal rights and the common good, but it is total nonsense. Just take a look at their strongholds. These people talk like MLK, but they live like the KKK or like a KKK fantasy world. Our elites live in hyper-white exclusive communities. Many are gated and walled. Often, they have their own private security forces. A modern college community, for example, operates almost like an autonomous zone with their own government and police.

http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=8017