Posted on 01/23/2016 10:01:45 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
I misunderstood what DoughtyOne was saying.
The Kelo situation was a complete disaster. I was involved in helping Long Branch, NJ fight off waterfront developers. Those people were brave! (A lot of ED happens around waterfronts - rivers and the ocean.)
Out west, don’t people lose land if not their actual homes?
A few things.
First generally only natural gas pipelines blow up in spectacular ways. Oil, water not so much,
160 acre farm is 1/2 mile by 1/2 mile if square. You are exaggerating a bit.
Eminent domain was changed with the Kelo ruling in 2005. It was changed to something not envisioned by the founding fathers. Trump loves the change. The change was fundamentally wrong and that’s the issue. And he isn’t correct about it.
This site has become dysfunctional. Trump is WAY left of Romney or McCain either one....
The “idiot” is the person who thinks Kelo is what the founding fathers envisioned, conservative and correct just because his guy says so. The link I provided you in the previous post makes that clear. And now that you’re calling names, no excuse for your ignorance. You’re just a blind follower.
I know someone with a 15,000 acre ranch in California. A large oil pipeline company and the owner negotiated a deal to cross a good chunk of his property. He’s happy, their happy and eminent domain was not used.
Dang, should have been “... they’re happy ...”
Usually, hostile takeovers by the government or NGOs occur when government policy is used to deny water rights either for irrigation or livestock consumption.
In the former case, a lost crop or fallow year can literally force someone to sell the farm, and in the Klamath case, organizations like the Nature Conservancy (IIRC) were there to offer a whopping 20 cents on the dollar of the value of that land. That is more typical of the Public/Private partnership land grab. Regulation, limitation, fiscal exhaustion (in court and otherwise), sale of assets to cover expenses.
We have not had much of that here in this State, but in others it is a growing problem.
One notable attempt here was an attempt by environmental groups here in the '80s to create a 'wilderness area' from homestead go-back land (homesteads which failed and the land went back to the Government). The proposal was presented as a series of parcels in random order, but when those were drawn on a map, comprised a strip of land which would have ended access to a significant area of ranching, farming, and oil production. The only other way in would have been to ford the Little Missouri River, which might be okay for an occasional crossing, but would not have provided sustainable access.
The proposal was stopped by a coalition of farmers, stockmen, and oilfield people, along with other property owners.
On occasion we feel the push of big money from elsewhere with astroturf campaigns for or against something, and thankfully (so far) North Dakotans have been able to spot and stop most of that.
I see you’re in North Dakota. How cool is that?! I hope to visit some day.
Interesting post. This is what I love about America - true diversity. You are in your wonderful part of the world, I’m in mine and yet we’re both in the greatest country in the world. All I really know about the west is from westerns, the book Shane and the Little House series.
To: re_tail20 Gee, our Owners in government are sure getting pushy. First, they confiscated all our real estate while we weren't looking (property taxes = The King's Rent on "your" house). Now, apparently, all our communications are belong to the government, too. 26 posted on 09/25/2014 4:22:27 PM PDT by kiryandil (making the jests that some FReepers aren't allowed to...)
Oh, I was "in love with Trump" in September of 2014 - before he was even running for political office?
I've pounded the King's Rent drum on Free Republic for more than a few years.
You certainly get upset when I call it what it is, jwalsh. Hitting a little too close to home? :)
Look - you're free to pretend that you "own" your house and land.
I'm under no illusions - the true owners send me dunning notices twice a year.
Yeah, that would make me cross, too.
I guess I misunderstood "eminent reclaim" in your post #133. I think you were responding to my "80% and here's the keys" post.
The “eminent reclaim” was a joke, a bad joke apparently, about your “here’s the keys” line. My kids don’t think much of my jokes either...
I thought it was perhaps a "funny".
I've been out and about.
The trumpsters don’t want to hear bad news about their messiah
Hope and change revisited.
It is a pace that varies from appearing somnolent to frenzied, depending on when you were here. If you feel so inclined, to learn more about the history of this end of the State I'd recommend reading Catlin's comments on the Mandan tribe, Lewis and Clark's journals (especially near the Confluence of the Missouri and the Yellowstone Rivers), and doing a web search on Fort Union (fur company fort), American Fur Company, Hudson's Bay Company, and Fort Buford.
The Great Northern Railway factors in, and the Chippewa (Turtle Mountain Band), Metis, Mandan, Arikara, Hidatsa, and various tribes of the Sioux Nation all have a part.
The book Bad Land (by Jonathan Raban) details many of the trials and tribulations of the homestead era and beyond in Eastern Montana, and the blessings and problems there are much the same as they are here over that period in history.
That will take you beyond Little House and give some insight into life on the High Plains.
On the lighter side, check out the poetry (and song) of DW Groethe, who is both cowboy and poet from Bainville, MT.
Actually, entities often try negotiation BEFORE eminent domain proceedings begin. It is during that time that entities will agree to pay a multiple of what a property is notionally worth.
But once the jurisdiction invokes eminent domain whether for its own uses, or that of another entity, whether public or private, the jurisdiction will agree to pay as little as possible, often barely market value.
As the article cites, with regard to pipelines and railroads, jurisdictions are specifically empowered to use eminent domain, if nescessary, for common carriers.
A pipeline is a common carrier. A limousine parking lot is not.
As usual, trump is wrong.
More of the same. But I’m going to mostly disengage today... I’ve really got to get back to work...
Eminent domain was not given in the Constitution for local “economic development”. Trump arguing that if you don’t use it someone else will, is merely an argument that says no, I’m not going to work to keep its use restricted to “public USE”, I’m not going to work to make it impossible for crony-capitalists to go shopping for the best give backs from local politicians or they’ll take their business elsewhere. Trump, as definitely no Conservative, is not a believer in rules being applied equally, he’s just a believer in “the big deal”. That big time crony-capitalism of Trump’s is why he as President will help the Democrats sink the GOP brand. The whole party will be tainted with his big deals and the crony capitalists who will benefit from them. People who say Trump is no Conservative are not wrong.
Well...
All this was about Kelo and Keystone was brought into it.
Keystone is not a natural gas pipeline.
You said Kelo was “conservative” and Trump was right in supporting it. That’s the entire point of this thread. Yet you evade that simple truth. A position you have failed to defend.
As far as math challenged, I made no math error. It is true I am ignorant of the recommended setbacks to a natural gas pipeline of x size under y pressure in z soil. You are welcome to correct me/fill in the gaps if you have factual knowledge of those details.
You have no idea who I am or my math capabilities but you jump to conclusions based on zero evidence. You lash out emotionally calling people names instead of addressing the actual issue at hand.
Those are the facts.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.