Posted on 01/03/2016 9:31:09 AM PST by Lazamataz
In the last day or so, a very dangerous situation has emerged in Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, near the town of Burns, Oregon. Ammon Bundy and about a dozen men, armed with firearms, have occupied a closed Federal building on that property. The local Sheriff has backed down, and there are rumors of Special Response Teams staging nearby.
This building is a smallish, very isolated building in the middle of a large National Refuge. Someone posted on a thread under a Guardian news article about this, "I'm in Oregon. These guys took over a headquarters building but it's kinda like an old brick house your grandma would live in and it's at least 50 miles from nowhere. You guys have a good time."
I do not intend to explore the minutia behind the case. That is a matter for courts. I do intend to explore the responses to this that we should take, and those we should not take.
I had a chance to hear a CNN interview with Ammon Bundy. At best, his narrative can only be described as incoherent. The CNN host, remarkably constrained in his questioning, asked what the government could do to unravel this. After a lot of "um's" and "uh's", the best Ammon could come up with was, "The government needs to start following the Constitution." The host wanted a more definitive answer, and Bundy had nothing. Simply put, this guy is the perfect foil for a police-state government move.
We all agree. The Federal government does need to start following the Constitution. This is a fight for the court system, and if there is no relief there -- AND it happens to more than a handful of us -- THEN other more drastic measures can be considered. The key is the universality of violation. The cases of Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Bundy Ranch -- while all eregious -- are spread apart by years and have happened to the tiniest percentage of people. The proper response to these actions are judicial in nature. Take these things all the way up to the Supreme Court. These venues NEED to be fully-explored, first.
If, however, this sort of government abuse begins to happen in greater and greater numbers, there comes a time when there is a tipping point. When OTrauma just starts going full-Stalin, we must react, or die on our knees.
I don't think we are there yet, notice how delicately he's treading on his gun control Executive Order tomorrow. It's basically a tiny measure -- purported to be background checks if the seller sells 25 guns a year -- and he had his people research it for months before deciding to proceed.
There comes a time he won't be so careful or delicate. That's when we know the balloon went up. Either that, or if we ever awake to find that the electric or communications grid is down. Those are proper signs that something srastic must be undertaken.
If the Feds undertake an attacking action, and lose anyone, this will be the chance for OTrauma to actually impose some Stalinist directives. Anything from a declaration of a National Emergency to martial law could be reasonably taken, and the masses of people would go right along with it. See, the masses of people need to feel the boot before they will join. There must be more support by the general population before we can move. There are also several ways to conduct ourselves. One is more direct action, but another seems to be effective as well. Look at Czechoslovakia for how a successful 'velvet revolution' can occur, or how the 'Arab Spring' caused (admittedly harmful, in this instance) change. Anything where we are the vast minority, and a Fed-supportive populace is the vast majority, is simply a death sentence for more of our liberties, and perhaps even a death sentence for we who believe in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
This particular set of actions by Ammon Bundy are just unwise. One actually wonders if he wasn't emboldened or encouraged to act recklessly by agents of the administration, embedded in his group.
I call upon Ammon Bundy to stand down, and work the court system -- all the way up to SCOTUS -- at this time. I plead for all patriotic-minded individuals to stay away from this situation.
One approach to dealing with this has come from militants like David Justice, who are following the Bundy model. So far, this appoach hasn't worked out well, as noted in the article linked-to.
The other approach is to get the County Commissioners on board and leverage their authority. This worked out well in a recent Colorado National Monument road access fight. A bigger fight here, which is ongoing, is the one over BLM land access. This effort to reign in the BLM is being spearheaded by PLAA and, again, the County Commissioners are involved.
there are numerous agencies/groups out there. Start a go fund me yourself then. But summoning arms at this stage is not the answer.
Charged as “terrorists”, that’s how.
By using “terrorism” the feds can essentially bypass the Constitution with impunity.
A key point IMO. Categorizing a crime as terrorism is now SOP when the government wants bury someone. Which is the case here as far as I can see by the little I have read.
That much we do know! Court records show that. Witness testimony backed up the charges on the first one.
Lets review the situation.
1. The constitution no longer protects individual rights as interpreted by the Federal government.
2. 0bama achieved the presidency via illegal means (fraudulent documents, not a natural born citizen)
3. 0bama regime and political class routinely break laws and the constitution as evidenced by their actions
Civil disobedience is ethically justified under these circumstances. True, individuals engaged in civil disobedience will be subject to punishment by the illegimate powers. And it’s also a fact that some acts of civil disobedience are poorly executed and ill timed. So, how bad would the Boston Tea Party look if a comparable action was taken today?
That being said, it is incumbent to support them if possible or at least support their legitimate anti-government sentiments. We need to think of more ingenious ways to weaken the the federal government by making it less efficient and less popular. Jury nullification, protests at court houses are a start. If this is used as a pretext to gun confiscation, we must not be defensive and double down against those that would disarm us.
They took over a shack in the middle of nowhere in winter. But let’s overlook the EPA’s toxic waste dump down a river, no prosecution there.
At THIS stage? Excuse me, but what does that mean? As I understand it, the ranchers in question are supposed to report to prison NOW.
They should get food stamps and welfare. They are refugees from an oppressive and dangerous government. People on the East and West Coasts of their own country are calling for their deaths!
How is trying to fight back against land grabs, Federal malfeasance, and blatant double jeopardy NOT the “high ground”? There NEVER WILL BE A PURE EVENT. Just more excuses...
,,,a long list of Grievances.
Myself and a few others spent most weekends on a Border overmatched,
still waiting for that to be secure.
The issue around the deer slaughter and fire tells me this is the wrong cause to back.
EXCUSE ME, the ranchers specifically requested that this kind of action not be taken. Yes, they have turned themselves in.
go grab your peashooter and join them then.
Glad to see you sobered up since last night’s post.
Great point!
.....snicker.....
“” The issue around the deer slaughter and fire tells me this is the wrong cause to back.””
Yep!
What happened at Waco still troubles me greatly. I have all three of the Rules of Engagement videos and there is no way what happened there can be justified.
I hadn’t seen that yet. What I did see is two men who served a sentence being ordered back a judge. That is beyond reasoning for me. People keep saying let the courts settle it, but they are trying to send them back to prison still. I don’t think I’d willingly give up 5 years or so of my life to see if the courts can fix something, especially if I’ve already served time.
Are they even inside the HQs? Or in RVs in the parking lot?
Good post Laz. Thanks. Unfortunately, cranks rule...or at least provide good news items. I hope this calms down, but the other thing with cranks is that they are major egotists and don’t give a darn about what happens to their families, their sympathizers or even their country.
You make an important point. Too bad no one on this thread seems to be picking up on it.
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