Posted on 08/22/2015 6:11:03 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
[[I guess Jesus was a “liberal” in your book as he said “you cannot serve God and mammon”.]]
Do you even know what ‘serving mammon’ means?
‘Serving Mammon’ means the same thing as ‘beign a drunk’ means I nthe bible- Making a salary, and drinking a few drinks does not make those two people a servant of mammon, or a raging alcoholic
A raging drunk wakes up each morning with only one thing on their mind, and that is alcohol- alcohol is ALL they can think of- their whole world is consumed by thoughts of alcohol- nothing else matters to them
Someone who ‘serves mammon’ wakes up each morning with only one thing on their mind, fulfilling their lusts and desires to get richer and richer- money is ALL they can think of- it is their whole life, it consumes them, it becomes their god
Please explain to everyone here how it is that Franklin Graham is so consumed by money that He can’t think of anything else- and will stop at nothing to acquire it,?
If that is what you think Franklin graham is all about then you obviously are either ignorant of Him as a person, OR you are intentionally misrepresenting what he is- Which is it?
As I said, it would be fine for Graham to earn $880,000 or $880,000,000 from a for profit (though God would expect him to be generous with that). But taking it from a “non-profit” is a disgrace and no Christian should tolerate it.
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Please show us from scripture where God gives a specific amount of money that’s too much for a person to make? Is it $880,000? Is it a million? Perhaps you make too much money? Is it fair that you make more than a homeless person? To the homeless person, you’re rich beyond measure. Perhaps you’re also “greedy for money”? I mean, if you can judge Franklin’s heart, then I can judge your heart also. See, this is easy!
It’s not the money, it’s the person’s heart. Poor people, middle class people, and rich people can all be greedy, and have a love for money.
If you can call Franklin Graham greedy because he makes $880,000 (a random amount that you deem is too much), then I can also charge you with greed because you make more than somebody else. This is a slippery slope you’re attempting to climb.
Good breakdown of Mr. Graham’s salary; definitely helps put things in their proper perspective. There’s nothing that’s been hidden by this man regarding his income and finances. Like you, I’m sick and tired of good people like Franklin being falsely slandered.
[[In Luke 16:13 Jesus says almost the very same thing where He said “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.” Instead of being a slave to either money or God, Jesus uses the word “devoted” which is close to the same things as being a slave. If someone devotes their life to something, that means that they pour everything that they have and everything that they are into whatever it is that they are devoted to. ]]
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2015/06/18/what-does-mammon-mean-when-used-in-the-bible/
Take an HONEST look at Franklin’s life and tell me which one he has devoted his life to- money or service for God- Tell me which one he has become ‘slave’ to- As he’s over in Africa sitting with mothers who are losing their children to aids, ebola, cholera, comforting them, giving them the gospel- are you honestly going to sit there and tell us all that he is a ‘slave to mammon’? Really?
And can you sit there and HOESTLY proclaim that what Franklin does make is spent entirely on himself in a greedy manner? and that nothing he makes goes towards furthering God’s word? Can you give us all a rundown on his daily expenses and charitable giving’s, and expenditures as he travels the world to help those in need? Can you show us that he ‘greedily’ squanders away the money he receives on just himself and family? Can you tell us whether or not he’s helped out poor families in his neighborhood, and indeed, around the world, who are struggling to make ends meet? No need to answer this- but how much time do you personally give to God compared to Franklin?
like they say- until we’ve walked a mile in their shoes, we don’t know them really-
Ahh...And what EXACTLY are these CLEAR teachings that Graham has disobeyed???
More IMPORTANTLY,
When are YOU going to deal with the sins in your own life that the aforementioned scriptures point out?
You have OPINION based on circumstantial evidence, based on 1" square exposed of a 12 foot picture.
In other words, you know nothing.
And yet you are developing self righteous indignation and scoffing at anybody who doesn't toe your mark of righteousness. You arrogantly proclaim "Pretty much par for the course in what passes of “Christianity” these days." And yet Jesus spoke to your ilk 2000 years ago. Your ilk crucified Jesus, because he likewise didn't measure up to their self perceived righteousness.
Thanks for clarification. /s
I notice there are nothing but red herring comparisons being made but no one compares his ministry to someone like Mother Theresa. She was able to do twice as much as the Grahams while eschewing all money & possessions but maintaining extreme piety.
Good point. Also, how about a comparison to Jesus who had no place to lay His head? (Matthew 8:20)
I wouldn’t expect Graham to go that far and would not criticize a upper, upper middle class salary of say $200,000 to $250,000 but $880,000 is obscene for a preacher and head of a charitable organization.
Churches are businesses. They require people of immense dedication and talent to run succesfully. Must they be paupers? Don’t we want gifted people to run organizations like this?
There is a difference between making money and serving mammon.
Yes, when you earn money legitimately and are generous with it that is not serving mammon.
When you skim nearly a million dollars a year of money
that was donated to feed the hungry and spread the Gospel you are serving mammon.
Solomon is likely in Hell. He turned away from God and worshipped the gods of the hundreds of foreign wives he married in defiance to the Lord’s warning.
Solomon should be used as a warning to men like Graham, not a justification of their behavior. He shows that you can start out with your heart in the right place but be lured away by worldly things.
“Churches are businesses. They require people of immense dedication and talent to run succesfully. Must they be paupers? Don’t we want gifted people to run organizations like this?”
There is a pretty big spread between pauper and the excessive salary. I believe there is lots of room to pay a good salary without going to either extreme.
“You’re going on and on about ‘starving kids’ while ‘someone has abundance (by the way, how much do you make while there are ‘starving kids’ around the globe?”
No that was not my point at all. Nor did I go on and on.
“The issue isn’t whether or not someone is a king, the issue you are bringing up is just how much someone should make, whiel there are ‘starving kids’ In the world, before they become ‘unGodly’ apparently”
Well, no. That wasn’t something I said either.
“Franklin Graham has massive responsibilities in his duties in SP- He is I n constant demand, his time is not his own- and he has sacrificed his life and desires to serve God, and you can bet that a good portion of that money goes to meeting his needs financially while on the road and traveling the world spreading the gospel-”
Again, we don’t know how he spends his personal money. Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt that he is a good steward. This isn’t the point.
“You and I would shrink like wilted flowers under the pressures He has to endure- yet you sit there and criticize him for earning a living? Really?”
You post about everything except the simple point that I stated concerned me.
Best
“His responsibilities are far greater than a military leader...”
By that standard, ANY christian should get paid over $200K. Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way. The degree of difficulty in his job and the number supervised, etc is minor compared to a 4-star general.
So we only want people willing to work for pennies or those incapable of earning top pay?
CEOs have a unique set of skills, which is why people are willing to pay them. His pay wasn’t done in secret. I have no issue with it.
“So we only want people willing to work for pennies or those incapable of earning top pay?”
I don’t think I read anyone on this thread advocating anyone working for “pennies.” Did you? It certainly was not me.
I pointed out that my wife and I are givers to Samaritan’s Purse. We love the work that they do.
I also said I consider $880k excessive compensation for a charity that is a ministry. You can believe the opposite. I’m fine with that. I can only decide for us who we give to.
I do find it interesting that the arguments supporting this excessive salary had to use logical fallacies. As an example, your response that “So we only want people willing to work for pennies” is a straw man argument, since no one here is making that argument.
Frankly, that the board thought this was reasonable and that Franklin accepted it (having had influence on who is on the board), is the first instance where I have questions about his judgment. I will take that up with Samaritan’s Purse directly.
“CEOs have a unique set of skills, which is why people are willing to pay them. His pay wasn’t done in secret. I have no issue with it.”
God has his people everywhere. He gives gifts to the church. They accept reasonable compensation. It does not take a million dollar compensation package to find a gifted leader to lead an organization that presents itself as a ministry.
That you have no issue with it is fine. You will decide how that impacts your decision-making before God in regards to giving to Samaritan’s Purse.
All I’ve ever said is that the organization does good work and I like FG, but that I find the compensation package too high for a ministry that uses the plight of the helpless to motivate giving. There is an irony there that doesn’t feel right to me as a giver. Perhaps you are willing to step into our shoes and take up giving to SP?
Best.
Obviously we cannot codify that nor should we. Even the Son of Man had no place to lay his head. Yet wealth was not unknown even among the first century church (though it was rare).
So yeah, it works that way.
The Apostles and early Christians were of far more value in the eternal sense than the Roman generals.
And Graham's "wealth" isn't, in the big picture of his ministry, that ostentatious.
Elsewhere in this thread I offered a comparison of the pay of FG in light of the contributions he is able to garner on behalf of the ministry. To wit, his recompense is decided by a committee of men. At .15% and .30% respectively, Graham is receiving a pittance comparatively speaking. Neither YOU nor I would take a job with that much responsibility for that little consideration.
Admittedly, I don't know what a four star general is paid--maybe even a lower amount, but his pay is determined via the law (unlike Graham's), so anyone wanting to achieve that level of leadership knows the score going into the job. So their choice and the "rewards" are known before hand.
< /As I See it>
See post 79.
Ask yourself if you would take a similar salary, given the size of the organization.
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