Skip to comments.Immigration officers doubted Obama birth story (Corsi tip-off to 7/17 Apaio Posse findings?)
Posted on 07/10/2012 8:45:56 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
NEW YORK Immigration documents filed in 1961 cast doubt on whether Barack Hussein Obama Sr. was the presidents biological father and indicate federal officers were prepared to investigate whether the Kenyan was married to the presidents mother, Ann Dunham.
Aside from the image of a long-form birth certificate released by the White House April 27, 2011 a document Sheriff Arpaios law enforcement investigation has found probable cause to believe is a forgery what documentary evidence is there that Barack Obama was the biological father?
In the third sentence of the third paragraph, the Dahlin memo adds the detail that McCabe reported the Kenyan had gotten Dunham pregnant, a fact that would have been consistent with the marriage being legitimate.
Except, Dahlin adds, McCabe reported that the Kenyan and Dunham did not live together and Obama Sr. and Dunham were contemplating giving the baby away to the Salvation Army.
The facts suggest a sham marriage arranged for immigration purposes only: a supposedly married couple who do not live together, a husband with multiple girl friends on the side and a baby neither parent seems determined to raise.
The decision to give away the baby to the Salvation Army after Obama Sr. got Dunham pregnant must have caused the INS to wonder precisely what kind of relationship existed between the two.
The memo indicates Obama Sr. might have been testing the waters to see what impact claiming a U.S. citizen wife and a U.S. citizen child would have on the INS. Officials would question whether he was the natural father or if he was merely the stand-in father, covering up an embarrassing situation.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
I suppose SADO could have been sent off to Kenya on a 'freighter' but I think it is more likely that she made the trip on a more comfortable and accommodating 'passenger ocean liner', as outlined below. 'Money' never seemed to be much of a problem for anything related to BHO-II.
Speculation concerning Ann Dunhams possible sea voyage from Honolulu, Hawaii, USA, to Mombasa, Kenya in the early Spring of 1961.
Honolulu to Mombasa, Kenya
It seems probable that Ann, 18 years old and about 4 months pregnant, traveled via one of the passenger ship itineraries indicated on the timetable linked below. I believe it is likely that she traveled alone.
Worldwide 1962 Ocean Liner Sailing Schedules -- British India Line
For example, assuming the sailing schedule was similar in 1961, she could have taken the voyage: -- Line 42, Around the World, Westbound via the Orient & South Africa,1962. On the leg from Hawaii to Kenya, it utilized the American President Lines, Messageries Maritimes, and the British India Line.
Travel Details, Line 42:
Depart from Honolulu, USA, March 7, with stops at Yokohama, Hong Kong, Saigon, Singapore, Colombo, Bombay, Seychelles, and arrive at Mombasa, Kenya, April 25.
Thus, the minimum total trip time from Honolulu to Mombasa was slightly over 7 weeks. However, I presume passengers could arrange to make extended tourist stops at cities along the route, board the next ship traveling the same route and belonging to the same shipping line which stopped at that city, and then continue the journey. It probably would have been especially easy to arrange extended stopovers along the way in either Yokohama or Bombay, since these stops involved changes in shipping lines. We don't know how long it actually took Ann to travel via ocean liner from Hawaii to Kenya.
American Presidents Line:
Video: S.S. Lurline - Matson Liner sailing from Honolulu - from whiteships.com
Uploaded 3/26/2009 by TheWhiteShips
"A home movie of the SS Lurline on Boat Day in Honolulu. Taken in the early 1960s, this scene was a regular occurrence in Honolulu during the golden era of steamship travel (1927-1978). Each week, Matson's grand white passenger ships arrived from California or the South Seas, and later continued on their voyage across the Pacific...."
Birther /börthör/ n. 1. A person who exhibits the audacity to read the U.S. Constitution, and then demands that his/her government actually obeys it. 2. A derogatory term developed and used by Leftists and Neo-Cons in a lame attempt to marginalize those who harbor the silly notions that Truth matters, and that Republics perish who refuse to uphold the Rule of Law.
ROTFLOL. Apparently you are very, very gullible.
0bastard has alienated India, and removed “moderate” Muzzie dictators such as Mubarak so they can be replaced with radical Islamic nutcase dictators. And you think it’s a good thing for our mil to remain in Afghanistan under his vile ROE??? Contained Chavez? You forgot to mention being an ohole to Israel. And kissing the butt of Putin - and sticking it to allies like Poland.
Did you vote for him or something?
Ping to 1961 ocean liner Honolulu to Mombasa run...with video!
“Depart from Honolulu, USA, March 7, with stops at Yokohama, Hong Kong, Saigon, Singapore, Colombo, Bombay, Seychelles, and arrive at Mombasa, Kenya, April 25.
“Thus, the minimum total trip time from Honolulu to Mombasa was slightly over 7 weeks.”
Thanks, WhizCodger. Great to hear from you.
Who will be the first to spot Stanley Ann among the passengers in the departure video?
Learning Russian could be a ticket to free advanced education in the USSR, as an option for BHO Sr., just as English got BHO Sr. to the US.
And ANY of the original copies of a transcript that might, even loosely relate to the individual are are looking for, (ANNA OBAMA) attending the U of WA, couldn’t POSSIBLY be made available.
Just as ANY record for a birth in the name of BHO2 couldn’t be made available, because the date of birth, the name of the mother, the various amendements would give too much away. So they showed you an ABSTRACT.
That’s probably what the U of WA transcript also is. An ABSTRACT. ANNA OBAMA, whoever she might have been, enrolled at the U of WA in time to attend classes in September 1961. But to do so, she would have had to register BEFORE the date of birth the BIRTH CERTIFICATE ABSTRACT CLAIMS to be the birthdate of zero.
And she’s shown starting classes on September 19, when the U of WA calendar clearly shows courses in 1961 commenced September 25.
Then you have the problem with who was it that was registered at the U of HI? Was it the student living with the Dunhams, who was shown in the Polk as Ann S Obama? The same name the kenyan placed on the immigration document after he crossed out another name?
If this is the Ann S Obama who attended Russian Classes with the kenyan, and she was enrolled at the U of HI, then her credits would need to be seen as transferred to the U of WA record. But was she Stanley Ann Dunham? There hasn’t been a transcript from the U of HI, so we do not know the name of the student.
We can’t find Stanley Ann Dunham at Mercer Island High School after 1958. One image of a girl wearing a sweater and pearls doesn’t make a graduate.
But if ‘they’, when they created the abstract, included the information that this student graduated from Mercer in 1960, and attended Russian Classes, that should do it. But the name of the student listed in the Polk directory is ANNA OBAMA.
BUT IT’S ONLY AN ABSTRACT! They have a handwritten, genuine transcript for a student by the name of OBAMA. Sure, it’s a problem, her name is shown as ANN (or ANNA)
Can’t have people thinking that maybe Ann S Obama in the Polk in Hawaii and Anna/Ann might be two different people...
No big deal. They now have the graduation in 1960 on there, they have the name of the school they maintain she graduated from, they have her enrollment at the U of HI for Fall 1960, and have her Russian Class attendance, and her Hawaii credits, all they need to do now is -
write her name across the top as:
OBAMA, STANLEY ANN DUNHAM.
And for good measure, they include the remainder of her records as they relate to what she did after...(what-ever for, is my question)
And thus we have converted OBAMA, ANN S who may have attended the U of WA - into a record for Stanley Ann Dunham.
HAVE AT IT! It’s really the first obvious example of the blending of TWO WOMEN in this saga.
I was unaware FR had restricted access to birthers only.
ROTFLOL. Apparently you are very, very gullible. <
Why do you say that? I took a Russian course at Oklahoma State Univ in the Fall of 1959. I also took Russian History and Russian Geography.
There was nothing unusual about the curricula at the time.
It’s just that there is no actual record of Stanley Ann Dunham being in HI at that time. I think there’s some other nullifying bits of info as well.
Read FN’s comment 111 about the transcripts above.
if you look at her transcript it was not made in 1961, look at lower right corner it shows u hawaii etc from the 1970’s
But we all know that trolls are afraid to answer direct questions, don’t we 0bot?
Bubba, ask me a direct question and I’ll answer it.
Let me ask you a direct question (or perhaps several).
Do you seriously believe that the only way someone can examine the evidence and reach a different conclusion than you do is because he is a dishonest troll?
Is it possible that you could be wrong?
Is it possible that the person disagreeing with you is wrong, but sincerely believes what he says?
Do you think it is helpful to your cause to insult anyone who disagrees?
Don't you think such behavior is more likely to cause him to tune you out rather than to accept your calm and reasoned argument?
Booboo, I already did and you didn’t.
And neither is anyone else, except for Obama who claimed he was born in Kenya, and Moochelle who stated that was his home country.
These records extensively corroborate each other on her location in HI up to Feb 2, 1961. The FOIA INS docs, U of HI records dept, U of WA transcripts and the divorce docs cross-affirm each other. I regard the naked pics in FMD's home at Christmas as likely confirmation that Stanley Ann was in HI in December of 1960.
All these documents destroy the "Dreams narrative" from late August 1961 up to when BHO Sr. departs in May 1962 when, according to Dreams, BHO Sr., SADO and Barry are living their improbable love as a little nuclear family in HI.
All alternative mothers for Barry lack even a shred of documentation for support. No transcripts. No FOIA INS docs. No BCs. No alleged marriage index listing for BHO Sr. to anyone else or any other marriage evidence.
YOU'RE FULL OF IT.
I did not write precisely.
I was speaking in terms of the seasons, not semesters. I was trying to expand my comment to encompass the corroborated alleged marriage date of February 2, 1961, a date that fell outside her U of HI attendance, which you correctly point out. The Fall semester ends in late January in the winter.
In any case, I am glad to see you posting a U of HI academic record as an authority for Stanley Ann's wherabouts clearly showing her attendance at U of HI in 1969 in a semester that encompasses the Fall and part of the Winter.
This fabled “meeting at a Russian class” has been dissected on FR on previous threads. The Kenyan and Stanley Ann did not meet at a Russian class. It’s part of the myth. Anyone who’s been paying attention to these threads for say the last 3 years will have read about the fake “met at a Russian class” fable.
Your problem is that you assume that the fable in “Dreams” is factual. And refuse to notice discrepanices in the “evidence” as you take the fable as a “given”. Thin, flimsy or proven wrong “evidence” is fine with you as long as it supports the “Dreams” mythology. And you ignore clues and evidence that proves the myth wrong.
Almost to the point of OCD.
I do not believe you can point to a single favorable reference I have made to “Dreams.”
Note that I am not the one who keeps referring to the Dreams account of Stanley Ann going to Chicago as an Au Pair, for which there is no substantiation elsewhere. That whole account was a vehicle for Ayers' racial memes.
Stanley Ann as Barry's mom does not originate in Dreams!
All of the credible, corroborated evidence pointing to Stanley Ann as Barry's mom pre-dates “Dreams.
The only documents involving Stanley Ann for which there is a credible case for forgery, IMO, are the COLB and the LFBC.
If Sheriff Arpaio announces that he has proved that Malcolm X is Barry's dad and Barry's mom is from Lebanon you can have a big laugh on me, but I don't think that is what the Posse has found that is shocking and breathtaking!
You’re still full of it.
That’s how the entire East-West Centre scenario entered the discussion, it was discovered that the university had no Russian Class nor Russian language teachers, (OR IF THEY DID, WE COULD FIND NO RECORD OF THE CLASS OR THE NAMES OF THE TEACHERS)and obviously, neither could the obots who were hassling us, or they would have told us who the teachers were and perhaps brought to our notice, others who had attended the classes, but they didn’t, which was telling so it just had to be elsewhere, and the East-West Centre was convenient. But the East-West Centre, according to wiki (heaven help me, I could barely believe my eyes when I looked it up) didn’t open until 1962.
So you see what happens?
The liars that pop into FR just to misdirect and cause dissent, never find it worthwhile to check their lies at the door, and later, when the meme has spread, (which is all they want to achieve) we are left with making the same corrections OVER AND OVER!
So let’s give them another opportunity now. Please, come forward and tell us all about the Russian Classes at the U of HI, who remembers attending them, what were the names of the teachers...(and don’t tell us you were actually at the East-West Centre, because wiki says it’s not possible...
On May 9, 1961, then U.S. Vice President Lyndon Johnson was a guest at groundbreaking ceremonies for the EastWest Center’s first six buildings. Five of the new buildings, designed by architect I. M. Pei, were built along the new EastWest Road where a new 21-acre (85,000 m2) EastWest Center campus just west of Manoa Stream on the east side of the university campus replaced chicken coops, temporary wooden buildings for faculty housing, and the Hawaii Agricultural Experiment Station. A sixth building built under the federal grant for the EastWest Center was Edmondson Hall, designed by architect Albin Kubala and built on McCarthy Mall.
Four of the six buildings were completed and opened in September 1962...
Are you sure the George pic hasn’t had the aspect ratio manipulated?
Mark Davis was/is actually Air force intelligence, not DEA. He posts on the Internet as “Kaleokualoha,” usually commenting on articles about his family where he assures everyone that FMD was not a Communist and is not Barry’s daddy. Lulz.
No, Roman law held that once a man recognized “his son” that was it. One could adopt a son and biology had no part in it. That son had all legal rights of any “son”.
All of the credible, corroborated evidence pointing to Stanley Ann as Barry's mom pre-dates Dreams.
No point in discussing with you any further. You have way too high of an estimation of your own judgement and way too low of others' who have taken apart every iota of "evidence" that SAD is the mother and ripped it to shreds. For three or more years. You fanatically cling to your beliefs and that's the beginning and end of your position.
That transcript looks real (although it may not be real). It seems consistent with what might have been the system in an office back in 1961; it looks like a card that was updated as necessary, by typewriter, and stored in a file cabinet. The only way to disprove the FORM of the transcript is for somebody else who went there that year to find us a copy of their own transcript. By now, they’d probably refuse to provide another student with a copy of their own “original” and would instead give them a computer-generated summary. It’s odd that they released this transcript, but when people ask for Obama’s, or any other politician’s for that matter, they’re told that it’s private and can’t be released. Do they release them only if the person is deceased?
And shes shown starting classes on September 19, when the U of WA calendar clearly shows courses in 1961 commenced September 25.
With all due respect, I don't think that is an abstract. That form wasn't in use until ten or fifteen years later--they didn't have it; it isn't what they used in the 1960's. That transcript is just a fake--prepared by someone who had access to later transcripts from the 80's to use as a form. It is fake.
So how do you know that Obama didn’t renounce his US citizenship in any consular office in any of the foreign countries he visited at any time between age 14 and now? He widely traveled the world from age 5 onwards.
If as teen he renounced his citizenship but did not take it back within 6 months of turning 18, the renunciation is irrevocable. The only way to get it back is by naturalizing.
How do you know that he didn’t do this? Remember that his State Dept. passport files were “cauterized” by someone working for John Brennan, who is now part of the Obama administration.
If he renounced, there’d be plenty of paperwork documenting his clear intent. In such a case, your “administrative premise” is void (the assumption that the person had no intent to renounce.) There’s no such premise when the person clearly renounced.
On the other hand, if a person who engaged in ANY act that might call his citizenship into question (under the administrative premise) at some point makes an “inquiry” of the consular office or tries to register or GET A PASSPORT, then an investigation is begun and more paperwork about the person’s status is generated. We know that Obama must have naturalized in Indonesia because he was listed as an Indonesian citizen on public school records in Indonesia. That is one of the acts that calls US citizenship into question, when a person tries to get a passport, which he would need to go back to Hawaii to live. THAT would have initiated a consular investigation that would result in WRITTEN documents to record his status. The results of the investigation would be documented.
All of these papers ought to still exist, if any of these situations apply to Obama.
When he went to Hawaii to live in 1971, what passport did he use? When he traveled to visit his mother, wherever she was, what passport did he use? When he first went to Kenya, what passport did he use? When he went to Pakistan in 1981, first stopping in Indonesia, what passport did he use? He was about 20 years old. Did he go first to Indonesia to get an Indonesian passport, renouncing his US citizenship in the process, so that he could make that trip to Pakistan as an Indonesian? Just one possibility, which potentially explains why he never mentioned that trip until shortly after the passport files were “cauterized.” Not in either of his books did he mention a long trip to Pakistan. http://web.archive.org/web/20020222232435/http://travel.state.gov/acs.html
This next link talks about taxing a person who renounced US citizenship, which calls to mind Stanley Sutoro and her huge, potentially still unpaid tax bill: http://web.archive.org/web/20020204174803/http://travel.state.gov/loss.html
Do taxes owed die with the taxpayer, or does it come from her estate?
This link has details about young teens renouncing citizenship: http://web.archive.org/web/20020204000824/http://travel.state.gov/renunciation.html
Other sections on that first link go into detail about children born abroad. One in particular notes that if he was born abroad to a US citizen mother who was not married, then she would have had to reside in the US for only one year. I don’t know when that particular clause went into effect. It may not apply to someone born in 1961.
Maybe it would be “rare” for a teen to renounce his citizenship, but nothing about Obama or his background is normal. He was born a citizen of Britain and the US, if you believe his story. He later obtained Kenyan citizenship. He was an Indonesian citizen at age 6. His mother lived the rest of her life overseas. His father was never a permanent resident of the US and he may not have been married to his mother. Obama traveled all over the world, even after he went to live in Hawaii at age 10. He hides his transcripts and other documentation that might show whether he was listed as a foreign national at college. He talks about having student loans, but nobody’s seen evidence of those, either. What sort of loans were they, and from whom? Too many questions without answers.
Here’s another link that talks about an “expeditious way” that a person can give citizenship to a child born abroad by using the GRANDPARENTS’ US residence (even dead grandparents) as the qualifying criterion. This also may not have applied to Obama, if this was a policy change made after his birth, but there might have been a similar “less expeditious” procedure in 1971. Or maybe he made use of this procedure, if possible, say, around 2008. http://web.archive.org/web/20020222234834/http://travel.state.gov/xnat.html
On the first link I provided, above, there is a link to a page with a long list of information one must have to prove citizenship. There’s also a link to a page about foreign adoptions. I read on one of the pages that for a child born abroad there must be proof that the US citizen parent is related biologically AND legally. Because they focus on biological and legal parenthood, I wonder if this is part of the reason why the INS asked about Lolo’s relationship to Barry under a specific law, with the answer coming back that he was technically Barry’s stepson. At that time, was he not yet adopted by Lolo OR was perhaps Stanley Ann claiming that Lolo was the biological father?
Not understanding your faith in the "they met at a Russian class" myth.
“With all due respect, I don't think that is an abstract. That form wasn't in use until ten or fifteen years later—they didn't have it; it isn't what they used in the 1960’s. That transcript is just a fake—prepared by someone who had access to later transcripts from the 80’s to use as a form. It is fake.”
135 posted on Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:52:57 AM by David
Ah, so I assume this means that the U of HI did offer a course in Russian in 1960, then. Now if only a list of students could be unearthed.
Well, THAT information comes as a surprise, it certainly wasn’t available when we searched for it high and low duriing the two long threads...iirc. Many thanks.
I was trying to think of an alternative regarding the method...of course it's fake, it's as fake as the recent birth certificate, but that's an 'abstract' (AS THE WORD APPEARS STAMPED ON THE BACK OF THE BC) in the sense that what we see is a BC form relative to the period as a background, and picked up information from a number of existing sources (such as a bc for the original BHO2 born within the date range of the public index 1960-1965) on which the father's RACE may have been shown as NEGRO-AFRICAN for example, and 'they' simply dropped the NEGRO. I say that because one of the layers exposed on the recent fake shows the name of the mother as ANN D.....and another layer shows UNHAM added to create DUNHAM. So ABSTRACT in the context in which I used the word means FAKE, just like the birth certificate.
Ella Wiswell Papers
Founder of the Russian language program at the University of Hawaii, where she taught from 1951 to 1968.
That doesn't affect US citizenship.
Thank you. I gather perhaps this information wasn’t readily available during various searches on the Long Threads started in July 2008. So we now have confirmation there were Russian Classes at the U of HI.
And if we had a genuine transcript belonging to Stanley Ann Dunham that showed she attended Russian Classes after her ‘enrollment Fall 1960’ we would perhaps know who attended the classes with the kenyan.
However, skeptic that I am, I would expect any transcript to show the student as ANN S OBAMA who was living at the birth announcement address, a house shared by Mr & Mrs Dunham and the Pratt family, while Stanley Armour worked for PRATT FURNITURE.
So what you need to do now is show us that ANN S OBAMA was STANLEY ANN DUNHAM.
Her husband, John Embree, was heavily surveilled by the FBI for presumed Communist ties. You can read more about him in Threatening Anthropology: McCarthyism and the FBIs Surveillance of Activist Anthropologists. Embree died in an accident in 1950.
Of course not everybody who was investigated by the FBI was a Communist -- and just about anybody who studied anthropology in the 1930s was likely to be left-wing -- but it's interesting.
With all due respect, I don't think that is an abstract. That form wasn't in use until ten or fifteen years laterthey didn't have it; it isn't what they used in the 1960s. That transcript is just a fakeprepared by someone who had access to later transcripts from the 80s to use as a form. It is fake.
I can't imagine which word in #135 you would think in any way stipulates or even implies that any single word in the purported transcript is "actually genuine" in any respect.
On its face, it looks to me as though someone in administration at the U of W was tasked to create a transcript for Stanley that appeared regular on its face; they had access to old style transcripts but only back to the 80's; they assumed as you do that no one will be left around that would recognize that the form is not a 1960's form; probably the person in charge of the fake didn't even know what a 1960's transcript ought to look like.
No, I don't see anything about this one that looks like reliable factual data for any purpose. It is just another fraud perpetrated by Zero's supporters.
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