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Hawaiian newspapers don't prove birthplace
WorldNetDaily ^ | July 22, 2009 | Drew Zahn

Posted on 07/22/2009 8:30:14 PM PDT by RobinMasters

The announcements of Barack Obama's birth printed by two Hawaii newspapers in 1961 do not provide solid proof of a birth in the Aloha State because of uncertainties over the policies and procedures that apparently were being used at the time.

The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, for example, according to its website, now reprints birth information it receives from Hawaii's Department of Health.

"We don't have an editor who handles birth and marriage announcements; we print what we receive from the Department of Health Vital Statistics System," a Star-Bulletin newsroom operator explained to WND.

The operator said, "This is how we've always done it."

The newspaper's "proof" of birth, therefore, could be based on a state-issued "Certification of Live Birth" which, as WND has reported is insufficient alone, even for some State Department officials, to document the birthplace.

Many people remain unaware a child does not even have to be born in Hawaii to receive a Certification of Live Birth, the very "evidence" the White House has cited in defending its assertion Obama was born in Hawaii.

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Hawaii
KEYWORDS: article2section1; barackobama; bho2009; bho44; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; colb; eligibility; ineligible; kenya; naturalborn; naturalborncitizen; obama; obamanoncitizenissue; racheldoro; usurper
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To: usmcobra

The Nordyke twins were born that same time frame and they are not listed in the announcements. Wonder why? Since Nordyke was a young physician, perhaps he and the wife were living in the guest cottage out back, if it was there in 1961, and that’s where they brought the children home, moving not long thereafter to larger quarters. It would be a convenient slot into which to position the Obama forgery/conterfeit, if the microfiche was tamper with.


201 posted on 07/23/2009 11:24:04 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: steven33442

Welcome to FR, n00b. Waht cheese do you prefer with your whine?


202 posted on 07/23/2009 11:25:45 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: usmcobra

FYI: Daniel Lefforge (b. 1960), two daughters, Andrea Harper (b. Mar. 15, 1955) and Mia Blake (b. 1959).


203 posted on 07/23/2009 11:37:01 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afganistan and Iraq))
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To: Polarik
These announcements were phoned in from parents or family members ALL OF THE TIME.

In that case, the order of the names would not be the same in both papers. LOL! Better pay less attention to pixels and more to common sense.

204 posted on 07/23/2009 11:40:04 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Lady Jag
Is that address the same as this?

Yes. And the cottage in the back is most likely their (or her) residence at the time.

205 posted on 07/24/2009 12:16:21 AM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Redwood Bob
Which hospital submitted the report of Obama's birth?

It's strange that none wants to admit it.

206 posted on 07/24/2009 12:17:07 AM PDT by Jess Kitting
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To: MHGinTN
It would be a convenient slot into which to position the Obama forgery/conterfeit, if the microfiche was tamper with.

hmmm...must check to see if I can find when the Nordykes moved to Hawaii...

Mary Ellen Nordyke-Grace LINK

What has made Stanford appealing to all of them?

...My mother, Eleanor Cole Nordyke, graduated from Stanford’s five-year nursing program in 1950 and was married in Memorial Church the same day. My father, Robert Allan Nordyke, earned his BA and MD from UC Berkeley...

<~snip

How have you balanced your career and family life?

Juggling work and family demands can certainly be challenging. We have found that it is crucial to discover efficiencies, such as conducting activities in parallel, whenever possible. We are extremely fortunate to live within walking distance of the children’s elementary and high school, Punahou School, and the University of Hawaii. We are only a 15-minute drive, door to door, from my office downtown. Several family members, including my mother, live on our street and provide unfailing support.

207 posted on 07/24/2009 1:09:24 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: Fred Nerks

Maybe the story that Maddy Payne had osteoporosis was a lie?! Rememeber her illness stories changed a couple times before she sudenly allegedly died suddenly.

Maddy Payne also could have just been lying to the dingbat Nordyke lady on the cruise. What was Maddy going to tell her? The truth?

“Yeah, lady, my grandson finished Columbia on a no-show CIA-workstudy program and then he and the terrorist Bill Ayers wrote a fictional account of his life growing up in Hawaii.”

No, Maddy told the Nordyke dingbat just enough to shut her up.


208 posted on 07/24/2009 1:33:05 AM PDT by Plummz (pro-constitution, anti-corruption)
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To: MHGinTN

http://yedda.com/questions/new_traction_Obama_birth_college_5041156713523/

“...Dr. Robert Allan Nordyke joined the Straub Clinic, located at 7192 Kalanianaole Highway Honolulu, HI 96825, on April 11, 1960. He was a pioneer in nuclear medicine.

“I suppose it’s just a coincidence that his wife, Eleanor Nordyke, pops up and says she gave birth to on the same day in the same hospital, then the birth announcement shows the same street address as her husband’s clinic? And the twins birth was never announced at all? A physician and his wife give birth to twins and there’s no announcement?

“Where is the birth announcement for the Nordyke twins, who both turned up in Obama’s kindergarten class? Were their names eventually removed and another name substituted in the same space?”

http://www.straubhealth.org/sch/clinics/hawaii-kai.aspx

Straub Hawaii Kai Family Health Center
Koko Marina Shopping Center
7192 Kalanianaole Highway
Honolulu, HI 96825


209 posted on 07/24/2009 2:38:28 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: Plummz

Please stop addressing unsourced comments to me.


210 posted on 07/24/2009 2:40:42 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: Defiant
“If the newspaper announcements are genuine, I consider it pretty damn conclusive”

So conclusive we don't need to bother with actual documentation for this president like we do with every other person in the universe.

211 posted on 07/24/2009 3:20:19 AM PDT by bluescape (The American media, The guard dog that holds you down while the attacker has his way.)
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To: MHGinTN
Might as well kill two birds with one stone:

TEXASDARLIN

blog58

"The story of Dr. West delivering the baby is all bulsh%$##.

"TD: can you please make snap shots before posting before the info disappears?

"Not scared enough already?:

"- On the first link, click to go to the next picture where the Dr. West is shaking hands with Bush.?? You thoughts?

“Rodney T. West’s Story” “…In September of l949, he resigned from the Naval Reserve as a full Commander. Then, after practicing on the Big Island of Hawaii for a year, he returned to Honolulu and joined the Obstetrics and Gynecological department of the Straub Clinic. IN DECEMBER OF 1956, after delivering at least 5,OOO babies – and other things, he retired from the practice of medicine…”

LINK PROVIDED, SCRUBBED

And that puts an end to the 'Teacher from Kenmore' story, Barbara Nelson. Who, btw, arrived in Hawaii in 1949 from Buffalo. That's the same year Neil Abercrombie arrived from Buffalo...

212 posted on 07/24/2009 3:29:24 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: Defiant
BIRTH ANNOUNCEMENT FORGERY ATLAS SHRUGSLINK

Here’s a comment on Atlas Shrugs from Infidel Granny, reminding Pamela just where the birth announcement came from. It was a scan, e-mailed to her.

“Pamela, Infidel Granny here. I am the woman who sent you the birth announcement from the Honolulu Advertiser in July 2008. You gave me a hat tip on July 23, 2008. I sure hope you don’t think I had anything to do with a forgery.

The woman I spoke to at the Advertiser suggested I contact the Hawaii State Librbary for the info. That’s where I got it from just as it states in the blog on July 23. The librarian stated another woman had asked for the same thing about one week before I did. You might still have my email and phone number. Feel free to contact me if you like.”

I’m putting this up here now because the link to Texasdarlin where Lori Starfelt explains how she came about her material (from the same source, by e-mail) has been removed.

Maybe factcheck didn’t appreciate me drawing attention to that fact they ‘validated’ an announcement that was an electronic image of a scan received by e-mail from an anonymous poster?

8,014 posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:47:12 PM by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)

213 posted on 07/24/2009 3:40:11 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: El Gato
RE: You are assuming the August 4th date is correct.

That's a very good point.

214 posted on 07/24/2009 3:46:26 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: El Gato

Wherever Barack was hatched, Stanley Ann was on a transoceanic flight within two weeks of his birth.

Not if he was born within driving distance of Seattle/Mercer Island. Vancouver for example, but also lots of other places.

That’s true.


215 posted on 07/24/2009 3:57:14 AM PDT by Beckwith (A "natural born citizen" -- two American citizen parents and born in the USA.)
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To: PeaceBeWithYou

That’s interesting, is there an exact date on the son?

It is still possible that his birthday was actually in 1961 and is recorded wrong and that he is the child referenced in that birth announcement.

From what I have just read on this thread, the clippings in question were of particular interest to someone else before they were sent a week later to one of the PUMAs.


216 posted on 07/24/2009 4:54:00 AM PDT by usmcobra (Your chances of dying in bed are reduced by getting out of it, but most people still die in bed)
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To: MHGinTN
HONOLULU ADVERTISER

Dr. Rodney T. West

Born: Dec. 23, 1910, Wailuku, Maui

Education: Skipped seventh and eighth grades; Honolulu Military Academy, Punahou School, where West played clarinet.

Naval service: Joined Navy Reserve in January 1940, activated Sept. 5, 1941 — March 26, 1946. Resigned from Navy Reserve in 1949 at rank of commander.

Medical career highlights: Delivered 5,000 babies; President, Hawaii Medical Association (1963); Medical Director, Straub Clinic (now Straub Clinic & Hospital) until retirement in 1975; one of the founders and first president of the American College of Physician Executives (1975).

Family: Wife, Mary Ann (Carlisle) West, died 1994; daughter, Jo-Anne Lewis (Kaimuki); sons, Kenneth C. West (Phoenix) and Rodney West Jr. (Spokane, Wash.)

Lives: Kahala Nui senior residence -----

(Update: I thought that 1956 retirment date may have been to early.)

217 posted on 07/24/2009 5:12:03 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: usmcobra

Obama’s Birth Announcement found in Newspaper
Texas Darlin Website ^ | July 22, 2008 | Texas Darlin

Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 12:05:44 PM by Kevmo

Obama was likely born in Hawaii — does that mean he’s Eligible? July 22, 2008 · 19 Comments

*The birth announcement was tracked down by Lori Starfelt, the producer of a documentary that PUMA is working on.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2049721/posts?page=186

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/obama-was-born-in-hawaii-wrong-can-of-worms/

LINK NOT FOUND.


218 posted on 07/24/2009 5:22:25 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: Fred Nerks

The purge continues....


219 posted on 07/24/2009 6:03:17 AM PDT by usmcobra (Your chances of dying in bed are reduced by getting out of it, but most people still die in bed)
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To: Fred Nerks

Thanks, Fred Nerks, and may I ask, is it a conspiracy ‘theory’ if there are incorrect addresses on supposed newspaper ads, and forged selective service card, and fraudulent images of fabricated-to-look-like certification of live birth exhibits? I’ve been at Freerepublic for a long time and this year is hallmarked by the mysterious absence of monitoring for liars openly using FR to spread lies. So I’m beginning to wonder how many conspiracies and how credible? Why are open liars being coddled?


220 posted on 07/24/2009 8:18:41 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: bluescape
So conclusive we don't need to bother with actual documentation for this president like we do with every other person in the universe.

You are adding words that I did not say. Don't do that.

Where were you for the past 18 months? I have been saying he should have to provide his birth certificate from the very beginning of this. I have to gather BCs from 8 year olds for little league teams. You would think the President of the US would have to show his at some point in this process.

I believe there is something he is hiding that is on that BC, maybe a religion, maybe his real father, who knows. But if you are taking odds, the odds that he was born in Hawaii is about 100-1. You can concoct scenarios that he was born in Kenya, or Canada, and that the newspaper announcement was called in, that the mom left Hawaii and college, with a very expensive flight to the mainland, and the on to some foreign country, late in the pregnancy, that they made a long distance international call to a newspaper to post an announcement just so they could prove, 48 years later, that their newborn son was born in the US.

Show me the newspaper announcement is phony and that changes things. To have concocted an ad would show that there is a need to create a birth in Hawaii. I have seen no information anywhere that says that the newspaper ad is phony, just some speculation that it might be photoshop. In all this time, hasn't anyone gotten the original newspaper from the archives to check if it really was in there?

If the newpaper notice is genuine, the odds are pretty damn high that he was born in Hawaii. Medved, who I don't like very much, is right about that.

221 posted on 07/24/2009 9:50:58 AM PDT by Defiant (Republican elites reject conservatism with great conviction and reject Marxism unless it is popular.)
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To: Fred Nerks

Until the actual newspaper in which the announcement was printed is examined and analyzed, the announcement cannot be automatically assumed to be genuine. It certainly appears other documents have been forged in the course of this, including COLBs posted on web sites that Obama has endorsed as genuine. There are a lot of people with a lot of resources who have been supporting Obama over the course of his career, and they have been scrubbing information on him all over the place, from the State Legislature, his colleges, his grade school records and so on. I would not blindly accept the birth announcement. It needs to be examined. What I have said is that if it is genuine, then the odds that he was actually born in Hawaii become extremely high.


222 posted on 07/24/2009 10:01:40 AM PDT by Defiant (Republican elites reject conservatism with great conviction and reject Marxism unless it is popular.)
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To: Fred Nerks

The source is the lies Maddy Payne told the dingbat Nordyke lady on the cruise, as related in the Honolulu Advertiser.

Hope this helps.


223 posted on 07/24/2009 10:49:21 AM PDT by Plummz (pro-constitution, anti-corruption)
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To: RobinMasters; null and void; Beckwith; stockpirate; PhilDragoo; Candor7; MeekOneGOP; Myrddin; ...
I find it hard to believe that people are still talking about this birth announcement as if it actually proved that Obama was born in Hawaii. Here are the questions I have for those who insist it can:

1. EXACTLY, which part of this announcement indicates that Obama was born in Hawaii?

2. EXACTLY, which part of this ad indicates that this announcement was NOT phoned in?

Let me reiterate the fact that birth announcements can and were phoned in. Saying that they only came from Vital Records is patently false.

Secondly, and I know that this won't sit well with the Obama supporters, but the evidence for Obama being born outside of Hawaii is stronger than it is for being born inside, and that Ann Dunham obtained her son's birth certificate several days dater.

I checked with the sales department and classifieds at the Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin. Call them yourselves if you don't believe me.

Plus, there is a lot more than suspicion about the address listed, as posted elsewhere, that there is no record of Mr & Mrs Barack Obama ever living there, but there is of another family. Also no black man or black child was ever seen there.

But, let's explore an alternative explanation: that the microfiche was altered.

The date of the birth announcements in the Aug 13, 1961 issue of the Sunday Advertiser ran from Sunday, July 30 to Monday, August 7.

The order of the birthdates, from the 1st listing to the 12th, seems to be random, ranging from July 30 to August 6. Since typeface is set from bottom to top, the last listing is actually the first, and from there upwards to the 13 th listing, the order is increasing chronologically from 4, 4, 4, 4 {Obama's}, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 7, 7, and the # of ads by day goes from Friday (4), Saturday (4), Sunday (1), and Monday (2).

Why would the Advertiser start its column with the weekend before last, from Friday to Monday, and then randomly from that point onwards?

If every listing came from Vital Records, then you would expect the entire list to be ordered by date or name. But, we know it's not. Maybe the first half came from the same hospital?

 

Those lines have been identified by some as "typeset lines" or ghost lines. The Advertiser listing for Obama has lines on both the top and bottom that continue on into the next column. The Star Bulletin listing does not.


224 posted on 07/24/2009 11:28:55 AM PDT by Polarik (Obama: When destroying America is not enough.)
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To: Polarik
Plus, there is a lot more than suspicion about the address listed, as posted elsewhere, that there is no record of Mr & Mrs Barack Obama ever living there, but there is of another family.

There is no evidence that there ever was a Mr & Mrs Barack Obama or that Obama Sr. and Ann Dunham ever lived together under the same roof at any time.

225 posted on 07/24/2009 11:36:03 AM PDT by Beckwith (A "natural born citizen" -- two American citizen parents and born in the USA.)
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To: Polarik

Thanks for the excellent post, Polarik

Ping.


226 posted on 07/24/2009 11:50:11 AM PDT by Iowan
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To: null and void; Beckwith; stockpirate; PhilDragoo; Candor7; MeekOneGOP; Myrddin; ...

1. EXACTLY, which part of this (newspaper) announcement indicates that Obama was born in Hawaii?

Ding, Ding, Ding!

Address of residence (like might be submitted to the state via mail) DOES NOT mean Address of Birth,
nor does address of residence denote State/Nation of birth!

     [§338-17.8]  Certificates for children born out of State.  (a)  Upon application of an adult
or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such
adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal
parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared
the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately
preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

     (b)  Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner
that the director shall deem appropriate
.  The director of health may also adopt any rules
pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent
applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events
necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

     (c)  The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted
pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]


Section 3 of the Hawaii Constitution. No person shall be deemed to have gained or lost
residence simply because of the person's presence or absence
while employed in the service
of the United States, or while engaged in navigation or while a student at any institution
of learning.
[Am Const Con 1978 and election Nov 7, 1978] -- As Anna Obama was while
attending Univ. of Washington in 1961-1962 while living in Seattle.


227 posted on 07/24/2009 12:25:17 PM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: Defiant
"If the newpaper notice is genuine, the odds are pretty damn high that he was born in Hawaii." That is rather absurd when we know that the state of Hawaii allowed people to obtain Hawaiian certification of birth even if not born there and the parents were not Hawaiians (Sun YAt Sen's Hawaiian issued BC as an example).

You are doing precisely what a the criminal wants you to do, focus upon the exhibit as if because you can see it it MUST be valid, not false information. We are reasonably sure the Obamas never lived at the address listed in the exhibit. That is ignored because you want to believe the lie. We know that the exhibited CoLB on the Internet is not valid for court use because we have the sworn affidavit of a retired FBI documents expert in the Keyes v Bowen case stating exactly that! You want to believe a lie and so does the useful idiot, Medved. So believe it! But stop trying to feed us the same crap you've swallowed that you want to call a baby ruth.

228 posted on 07/24/2009 12:42:25 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: cynwoody

Both papers are inder the same roof.


229 posted on 07/24/2009 1:12:41 PM PDT by Polarik (Obama: When destroying America is not enough.)
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To: Polarik
Seems like phoning in of birth announcements by the the newborn's family (or by hospital personnel) has been by far the most common way of placing these announcements in local newspapers for as long as I know of. In the case of the Honolulu papers, it could well have been that some of the announcements were from the state agency and others from private sources.

What is your interpretation of the additional horizontal lines running across the top and bottom of the Obama announcement? Is this an indication that the Obama announcement was likely grafted on at a later date?

230 posted on 07/24/2009 1:15:37 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: BP2; Polarik; LucyT; Fred Nerks; null and void; STARWISE
So, the coupon for the dry cleaners on the BACK of the birth announcement is actually MORE valuable--got it.
231 posted on 07/24/2009 1:21:46 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: cynwoody; null and void; Beckwith; stockpirate; PhilDragoo; Candor7; MeekOneGOP; Myrddin; ...

Oahu Publications, Inc. publishes the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, MidWeek, and the Hawaii Marine. Owned and administered by Black Press Ltd.

http://www.starbulletin.com/about/contact_information.html


232 posted on 07/24/2009 1:40:12 PM PDT by Polarik (Obama: When destroying America is not enough.)
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To: Polarik
Both papers are inder the same roof.

"Are" is hardly the relevant verb tense.

According to the Wikipedia:

From 1962 it [the Honolulu Star-Bulletin] was owned by a local group of investors led by Elizabeth P. Farrington and operated under a joint operating agreement with the Honolulu Advertiser that allowed the two papers to use the same printing facilities and sales personnel (the Hawaii Newspaper Agency) while maintaining separate fully competitive editorial staffs and providing Honolulu with two distinct editorial "voices."

In any case, 1962 comes after 1961, the year in question. But even if it did not, we see that the announcement insertions would have been handled separately.

Best to stick with pixel torture ...

233 posted on 07/24/2009 1:45:43 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: justiceseeker93; LucyT; Polarik; hoosiermama; Red Steel
Is this an indication that the Obama announcement was likely grafted on at a later date?

In addition to microfiche, newspapers also keep BOUND copies of their prints in the main office. The Smithsonian and/or Library of Congress should have independent archives as well.


REGARDLESS...

Ann was just a little over 18 years of age at the time of Barack Jr's birth. She had only been in Hawaii barely a year -- if she didn't actually leave for Washington state (or elsewhere) in Spring of 1961 before Obama was born.

She probably would NOT have a Hawaiian Drivers License to present -- even if authorities asked for it by mail or in person (which they probably would NOT have) to verify the address of residence on the newspaper ads of 6085 Kalanianaole.

Regarding Ann having a form of ID (Hawaiian Driver's License) to prove her address of residence to authorities if the baby had ACTUALLY been born in Hawaii ...

It was far too expensive for many residents to own and operate a car, then as it is now, in Hawaii. Ann's parents were a junior escrow officer (mom-Madeline) and a junior furniture salesperson (dad-Stanley), paying for college tuition. The father (Barack Sr) couldn't/wouldn't support the mixed-race child child either. THERE WAS NO REASON FOR ANN TO HAVE A HAWAIIAN DRIVER'S LICENSE THAT WOULD REPORT 6085 Kalanianaole. People take a taxi, bus, bike or walk because the distances are relatively close on the island:

The address, 6085 Kalanianaole, is AT BEST an address of residency, reported by mom or grandmother, and probably via the US Mail. It does NOT denote a location of birth, or a state/nation of birth.

The Hawaiian newspaper ad means NOTHING other than where Ann claimed to have lived -- nothing more.

The ad does NOT prove that Obama is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

234 posted on 07/24/2009 2:02:05 PM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: BP2

Ping for later review. :-)


235 posted on 07/24/2009 2:07:34 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: BP2; rolling_stone

RS, see BPs post here. He may be able to answer your other question.


236 posted on 07/24/2009 2:38:43 PM PDT by hoosiermama (ONLY DEAD FISH GO WITH THE FLOW.......I am swimming with Sarahcudah! Sarah has read the tealeaves.)
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To: MHGinTN

I know what you mean...but always look on the bright side, the more ‘they’ lie; the more angry we get, the more information we find...’they’ cannot win. ‘They’ are doing us a favour!


237 posted on 07/24/2009 3:08:37 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: Fred Nerks; BIGLOOK
Fred, when did St Ann turn eighteen? Her parents would have control in the decision of what to do with the baby in our state until the age of eighteen. Upon that birthday she is emancipated and makes her own decisions.

What are the laws of HI?

Does her eighteen birthday free her from parents decision to put the baby up for adoption, marry SR, or travel out of the country without parental consent?

238 posted on 07/24/2009 3:18:38 PM PDT by hoosiermama (ONLY DEAD FISH GO WITH THE FLOW.......I am swimming with Sarahcudah! Sarah has read the tealeaves.)
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To: MHGinTN
What college did Ms. Dunham attend? Where did she meet BH Obama, Sr.? Where was she living in 1961? Do you have any information that she had moved off the island of Hawaii in 1961, and if so, what is it? If she moved, did she move to Kenya? Why, so she could meet BHO, Sr.'s other wives?

It is possible that she was in some foreign country in 1961, but it is most likely that she was in Hawaii. I accept that the COLB is likely a forgery. The question is why. Is it because he was not born there? Or because there is something else embarassing on it?

I have seen no real evidence that he was not born on Hawaii. There is lots of conjecture and speculation that it is possible he wasn't if if if if... but no evidence of any kind that tells us where she was and why and how she got there. We do know she was in HI and Obama Sr. was there to go to school, too, and it seems likely they met there, and probably married there, although that is up in the air.

I still want to see the BC. Anyone who wants to be President should be required to show it.

239 posted on 07/24/2009 3:27:13 PM PDT by Defiant (Republican elites reject conservatism with great conviction and reject Marxism unless it is popular.)
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To: Defiant

“Is it because he was not born there? Or because there is something else embarassing on it?” What a disgustingly liberal thing to try and float at FR ... you would allow this affirmative action liar set the Constitution aside on his word that something ‘embarrassing’ is contained on the actual documents of his birth, and disregard the document fraud of him posting a ficticious CoLB to demand you leave him alone.


240 posted on 07/24/2009 3:52:42 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: hoosiermama

Stanley Ann Dunham was born on November 29, 1942

Sorry, I cannot answer your other questions.


241 posted on 07/24/2009 4:31:02 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: MHGinTN
What a disgustingly liberal thing to try and float at FR ... you would allow this affirmative action liar set the Constitution aside on his word that something ‘embarrassing’ is contained on the actual documents of his birth, and disregard the document fraud of him posting a ficticious CoLB to demand you leave him alone.

I defy you to find where I said any such thing. I think you have become unhinged. I have said since this issue first arose, sometime in the spring of 2008, that he should be required to show his birth certificate. I suspect that the reason that he does not is not that he wasn't born there, but there is something else on it that he doesn't want revealed. That's his motive, I have never said it was a valid excuse.

You have serious issues.

242 posted on 07/24/2009 5:08:42 PM PDT by Defiant (Republican elites reject conservatism with great conviction and reject Marxism unless it is popular.)
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To: Defiant
I have serious issues with Barack Obama ... and when a Freeper allows a liberal talking point to color their thinking, I pounce on it for what it is.

During the campaign, Axelrod used a method of layering lies onto any controversial issue regarding his 'boy'. The first lie was usually as seemingly innocent as implying 'Obama may have soemthing embarrassing on his birth certificate and he shouldn't be shamed just to prevent him running.'

You promoted that little 'innocent' deceit for him with your posts. The issue is not his embarrassment, it is his criminal behavior and possible ineligibility to hold office and him knowing damned well he is ineligible because he is suing any means he can to prevent anyone finding out just how ineligible he is!

Yeah, I've got serious issues with aiding this affirmative action fraud and his lying criminal enablers. I am sensitive to agitprops playing Freepers for idiots, too, by repeating the lies floated by Axelrod's astroturfing machine to cover for his bastard-in-chief.

243 posted on 07/24/2009 5:20:27 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: hoosiermama; Fred Nerks
when did St Ann turn eighteen?

Ann (reportedly) married Obama SR on Feb. 2, 1961   ANN'S EXACT AGE: 18 years, 2 months, 5 days

Ann (reportedly) gave birth to Obama JR on Aug. 4, 1961 (reportedly in Hawaii)   ANN'S EXACT AGE: 18 years, 8 months, 7 days

What are the laws of HI?

Assuming the laws are the same in 1960-1961 as they are today...

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/hawaii-age-of-consent-lawyers.html

In Hawaii, the legal age of consent to have sex is 16 years old. A person who is 14 or older can legally consent to sex with a person who is 19 or younger.

In Hawaii, it is illegal to have sex with a person under the age of 14 under any circumstances. However, it is legal to have sex with a person between the ages of 14 and 16, provided that the older party is no more than 5 years older than the minor.


Similar laws should govern parental decisions as well.

Ann(a) Obama and her husband should have been able to make decisions for the baby. But from various accounts, Obama Sr didn't want to be involved with baby Obama. And according to Susan Blake who saw Ann with the baby in Seattle 3 weeks after he was born -- Ann didn't even know how to change the diaper very well.

244 posted on 07/24/2009 5:41:01 PM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: BP2
thanks... But from various accounts, Obama Sr didn't want to be involved with baby Obama.

if the birthdate for the child is correct, and obama snr left Hawaii on the 22nd of June, 1962, and courted Ruth (now Ndesandjo) at Harvard, he didn't show much interest in his 'fatherhood' at all. Absent any evidence that 'mother and father' ever lived together...leads me to question paternity altogether.

245 posted on 07/24/2009 5:47:10 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: MHGinTN
MHG, you are a caricature of a conservative. Instead of thinking, you are foaming at the mouth. Your kind is the kind that liberals plant here to make real conservatives look like lunatics. I would not doubt that that is your purpose here; it has happened before, once quite recently.

I'm comfortable with the position that Obama ought to be required to show his birth certificate, even though I think the likelihood is that he was born in Hawaii. He needs to prove he was born in Hawaii, just like I have to provide my BC to get a passport even though everyone "knows" I was born in MO, and my kids have to show a BC to go to school and play little league baseball.

None of the wild-ass speculation about where he was born makes a bit of a difference. The point is that it's up to him to prove where he was born, NOT US, and he hasn't. Why he doesn't produce a BC is unknown at this time. You don't know and neither do I. You think, based on some pretty flimsy evidence, that it's because he wasn't born in HI. I look at the existing evidence and come to the conclusion that it is likely (not conclusive, but likely) that he was born in HI, and therefore, there is probablya different reason that he is obstructing the truth.

But the point is, neither of us knows jack. We weren't there. Although I have seen his mom naked, it wasn't at the right moment. Neither of us will truly know the reason for his concealment until someone forces him to produce the BC.

I know you are beyond reason on this, but maybe I can reach some others who have been enticed by the lovely dream of eligibility. Hopefully those others will step back from the brink of lunacy and calm down enough to focus on what needs to be done--get the birth certificate!

246 posted on 07/24/2009 6:35:04 PM PDT by Defiant (Republican elites reject conservatism with great conviction and reject Marxism unless it is popular.)
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To: Polarik
Phone in announcements were a convenience, they saved a 20 cent bus ride from Makiki to the Honolulu Advertiser and Star Bulletin publishers which were the same site at the time.

6085 Kalanianaole Hwy.....was it ever mentioned earlier that Madelyn Dunham was the loan officer at the Bank of Hawaii( like car loans, business loans.....mortgages)?
247 posted on 07/24/2009 8:31:33 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Government needs a Keelhauling now and then.)
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To: hoosiermama; Fred Nerks
I was so delighted seeing the photos of the nuptials of Stanley Ann and Barack Sr. on Maui .......that I forget what I was going to add next.

Stanley Dunham was stand up giving his daughter away and the tearful Madelyn moved me to ......disbelief.
248 posted on 07/24/2009 8:50:04 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Government needs a Keelhauling now and then.)
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To: BIGLOOK

You’re not the only one, I’m speechless myself! What a beautiful wedding gown...and the blue-bird of happiness sitting on the shoulder of the bride, tell the truth, there were tears in my eyes.

ROFLMBO!


249 posted on 07/24/2009 9:08:07 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: BIGLOOK; null and void; Beckwith; stockpirate; PhilDragoo; Candor7; MeekOneGOP; Myrddin; ...

Everyone should read Beckwith’s storyline, http://www.theobamafile.com/_eligibility/IssueBirthAnnouncement.htm, about the birth announcement that suddenly appeared ten days after the real occupant of that house, Thelma Jones Lefforge Young died on June 12, 2008.

http://www.theobamafile.com/_eligibility/IssueBirthAnnouncement.htm

That date should ring a bell with everyone as it was the date that the scan image forgery was posted on the Daily Kos and the now-defunct “Fight The Smears” websites!

There is a prevailing opinion on the blogsphere that this birth announcement was forged, and I can’t rule out forgery, either. I did an anlysis of it last year and saw suspicious parts of it.

I mentioned here, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2298872/posts?page=224#224, that I discovered the second half of these birth listings were put in chronological order, from Aug 4 to Aug 7.

I remember a posting on the TexasDarlin blog where someone proficient in typesetting said that he believes that the type used for the Obama announcement, and the ones above and below, were recently set and that part was reprinted. I have to go back and look.

But, here’s the deal: maybe the forger reset the entire 2nd half of listings and put them in chronological order.

Someone needs to get a copy of the birth announcements for the week before (Aug 6) and the week after (Aug 20) to see if there is any chronological ordering.

If not, then we have proof that the Aug 13 listing was altered.


250 posted on 07/25/2009 9:31:23 AM PDT by Polarik (Obama: When destroying America is not enough.)
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