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Where in the hell are the churches?

Posted on 04/24/2012 9:04:06 PM PDT by ShadowPatriot

I don't write about this topic lightly, and as you'll see by the dates---I've allowed several months and multiple opportunities to pass.  I have no desire to 'broad-brush' an entire church based on the behavior of one or two representatives and NO WAY will I lie about a church, but as it turns out, my 'now former church' is a poster child for 'religious political correctness' crossing paths with 'uncompromising reality.'  So as a result, I am now forced to use a much 'looser definition' of the word 'church'... but this in no way diminishes my love for God.  ~JDG

------

I began attending Kansas City's Heartland Community Church in 2008, while it was still a small neighborhood church that often required parking in the street, but that of course, was before they moved into their new mega-complex (pictured below).  The people were cool.  The music was cool...and Pastor Deeble gave some very inspiring and thought-provoking sermons. For the first time in my life,  I actually felt I connected with a church --- and I was diggin' it.  Not to mention, they serve assorted flavors of premium-blend coffees for your sipping enjoyment during the sermon.

Last August, I was all set to be baptized when everything changed.  I had a 'Spiritual Advisor/Sponsor' and we talked about a ton of stuff.  I was asked to share things that were the most personal...and I did.  A few 'man tears' were even shed.  Everything was rockin along until my questions turned to 'why the church never mentions anything about our children being robbed of the religious freedoms that you and I took for granted... just 25 years ago?

Little did I know I had just entered the Forbidden Zone--- I was now in the AREA 51 of Religious Political Correctness.


Fast forward eight months to now, and I am still uncertain if it was just 'the mere mention of Caesar' OR the fact that I suggested that 'Caesar may not have our best interest at heart' --- but regardless, I've been ridiculed, insulted and/or ignored by multiple Heartland reps since I brought it up.  My request to be baptized was NEVER again even acknowledged by Heartland... although I was encouraged to 'try another church'.

"Heather can have two mommies---but Johnny can't have a bible?" 

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TOPICS: General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: blogpimp; vanity
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1 posted on 04/24/2012 9:04:08 PM PDT by ShadowPatriot
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To: ShadowPatriot

If you want to join the church Jesus founded... you would be welcome.


2 posted on 04/24/2012 9:06:46 PM PDT by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: ShadowPatriot
Where in the hell are the churches?

Nice. Puts all Christians into the same category as all the reality shows. Nice.

3 posted on 04/24/2012 9:09:21 PM PDT by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: ShadowPatriot

Sad indeed!
Our church turned around...it was headed that way...it is now debt free and investing in community and of course the real priority missions (Matthew 28:16-20).
Major community outreach! As a result of being debt free able to launch a local community focused ministry. 6Stones has changed thousands of lives and our whole community in the middle of the DFW metroplex.


4 posted on 04/24/2012 9:12:54 PM PDT by An American! (Proud To Be An American!)
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To: ShadowPatriot

Churches in the hell? An interesting concept. You write about this topic lightly, doncha?


5 posted on 04/24/2012 9:13:30 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: ShadowPatriot
Find a priest you can sit down and talk with and get your questions answered. Then consider the TRUE church.

Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With: The 4 Marks of the Church
Radio Replies Second Volume - Holiness of the Church
One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic: Marks of the Church Building as well as the Church Herself
The 15 Marks of The Church
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Marks of the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic
Four Marks of the Church Four Marks of the Church
One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic: The Marks of Christ's Church [Ecumenical]

6 posted on 04/24/2012 9:14:20 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ShadowPatriot

Over the decades . . . I’ve tended to rant against churches & leaders who ought to have known better

than I have at rank sinners et al.

Sounds like you received dreadful treatment.

Recently a deacon in our church treated her rather horribly in her job as a customer . . . I’m still pondering what is fitting to do now about that.

Thankfully our Pastor at least believes more or less in having Biblical relationships and taking Biblical steps to right them.

However, putting that where the rubber meets the road still has a fair chunk to grow into, walk out as a body of believers.

Sounds like you got labeled and shunted aside as BEYOND THE PALE . . . when it was actually the group that had moved outside the Biblical parameters . . . if I understand things well.

I know there’ no perfect congregation and even less so a perfect denomination. However, do so many seem to HAVE to PRACTICE SO HARD BEING SO HORRIBLE?


7 posted on 04/24/2012 9:18:10 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Salvation

Or find a protestant preacher you can sit down and talk with and get your questions answered. Then consider the TRUE church.


8 posted on 04/24/2012 9:20:40 PM PDT by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: ShadowPatriot
Not to mention, they serve assorted flavors of premium-blend coffees for your sipping enjoyment during the sermon.

As a Trad Catholic I had no idea such a silly thing occurs. Anyway, the (R)eal (C)hristian church is always there for you.

9 posted on 04/24/2012 9:20:40 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: ShadowPatriot

So true.


10 posted on 04/24/2012 9:26:16 PM PDT by Jaded (Really? Seriously?)
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To: doc1019
You're stealing my line. LOL!

How Old Is Your Church?

11 posted on 04/24/2012 9:30:29 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ShadowPatriot

Check out Ann Barnhardt and get away from the ‘feel good, rock and roll’ church and the pastor who will throw away his faith to keep from getting a visit from the IRS.


12 posted on 04/24/2012 9:31:27 PM PDT by ebshumidors ( Marksmanship and YOUR heritage http://www.appleseedinfo.org)
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To: Salvation

My point ... it works both ways. LOL!


13 posted on 04/24/2012 9:32:48 PM PDT by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: Revolting cat!

Many churches are in hell. We have one that let’s the muzzies use their facilities.


14 posted on 04/24/2012 9:34:53 PM PDT by ebshumidors ( Marksmanship and YOUR heritage http://www.appleseedinfo.org)
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To: ShadowPatriot

Everything you ‘need’ can be found in the pages of the Bible. If your ‘church’ has to result to Starbucks, rock bands and stadiums, it’s no ‘church at all.

Personally I was raised RC and still believe the vast majority of the teachings. I parted company when the leadership refused to follow their own playbook. IMO, if one ‘has’ to associate with a church at all, the RC Church is still head and shoulders, IMO despite the problems, above these wannabee preachers with a secular degree in business.

If they took their own teachings seriously, I’d be back. Until then, Me and the Good Lord are doing just fine. I discovered that I didn’t need a middleman to tell me what I can plainly read for myself. That is something you may or may not wish to consider for yourself.


15 posted on 04/24/2012 9:35:27 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: ShadowPatriot

Not to mention the Clergy Response Teams of the DHS.


16 posted on 04/24/2012 9:39:20 PM PDT by Republican1795.
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To: ShadowPatriot

The churches have been co-opted and intimidated into inaction and often into irrelevance


17 posted on 04/24/2012 9:53:11 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: rwilson99

Jesus didn’t found a church, he set an example and led the way to heaven for all of us.

No where in the Bible does it say there are infallible humans (Popes) or to pray to dead people (Saints). Or to pray over totems and relics.


18 posted on 04/24/2012 9:55:05 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: GeronL

19 posted on 04/24/2012 9:56:46 PM PDT by narses
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To: ShadowPatriot

The Churches are terrorized, compromised, and marginalized.

Even the Catholic Church, which has played along with Democrat Socialists for decades, now finds it’s base doctrines being attacked, and can’t do anything about it, out of fear of political correctness.


20 posted on 04/24/2012 10:00:19 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Election 2012: THE RAPTURE OF THE DEMOCRATS)
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To: steve86

Does the RC Church allow concealed carry inside the Church? Just curious....we attended a PCA (Presbyterian - very conservative), however, they opposed CC in Church...always bothered me.


21 posted on 04/24/2012 10:00:59 PM PDT by goodnesswins (2012..."We mutually pledge our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor")
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To: rwilson99

Which would that be, the Eastern Orthodox Churches...or one in Rome? The foundation of the Eastern Orthodox Churches are, according to the Bible, older, you know...

(or maybe it has to do with believing what the Apostles—the eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus themselves taught—in what a literate person can read for himself, in the Bible, rather than very compromised human organizations?)


22 posted on 04/24/2012 10:02:07 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (because REALITY is never digital...)
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To: ShadowPatriot
I think this is a good time to state that I will not tolerate attacks against Christians.

Consider this a warning, and a reminder of the need to tolerate and respect peaceful religions.

Leave them alone, because while they may turn the other cheek, I won't.

23 posted on 04/24/2012 10:06:20 PM PDT by sarasmom ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZsFe6dM3EY)
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To: GeronL

he did found a Church (”on this rock...”). The Popes are not infallible humans, nowhere do we believe that — please do read a bit before spouting incorrect statements.


24 posted on 04/24/2012 10:53:00 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: goodnesswins

We’ve got a former CIA and former FBI in our parish. Does that tell you anything? LOL!


25 posted on 04/24/2012 10:57:43 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: GeronL

St. Paul thought differently.

Rom 15:30 - join me by your

prayers to God on my behalf

Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 - pray for us

2Thess 1:11 - we always pray for you

2Thess 3:1 - finally, brothers, pray for us

Eph 6:18-19 - making

supplication for all the saints & for me


26 posted on 04/24/2012 11:03:58 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

pray FOR them, not TO them


27 posted on 04/24/2012 11:20:53 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: GeronL

well, firstly your statement was wrong about “infallible humans” — we don’t believe that. Where do you get these incorrect statements from? And why do you repeat them?


28 posted on 04/24/2012 11:45:13 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: goodnesswins

I see cops in my RC church fully holstered and reciving the Eucharist. The priest knows them well. The Centurion is why we say during Mass - “I am not worthy for You to enter under my roof, but only say the word and I shall be healed”.


29 posted on 04/24/2012 11:53:31 PM PDT by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: Norm Lenhart

Come on back. You know, priests and bishops are sinners like the rest of us, sadly, and we know God chooses the weakest for His work - soundls like many of the priests and bishops right? But some of those weakes have insights and Traditions that will blow you away.

You may be smart, incredibly smart - but what did the earliest Christians and their earliest detracttors say about the Eucharist....about Mary,....You can’t get that from the bible, you get that from the teachings of the Church. Check it out.

The bible is recorded oral history - without eror. But what of the other recorded history of the time? Not divinely inspried certainly, but could have a lot of additional value just like other great men’s thinking (greeks, etec). The male and female “Doctors of the Church” are of course not in the bible, but great men saw the obvious brilliance in what these bible readers pulled and lived from the bible and Tradition and hold them in high esteem - check THEM out.

Come one home - let the jerks in the family not get you so down - Dad is still Dad!


30 posted on 04/25/2012 12:01:03 AM PDT by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: If You Want It Fixed - Fix It

I’d love to. But here’s my problem. Dad’s kids are running roughshod over the family and basically told him to pound salt.

Kidding aside, When I look at the positions the RCC has taken publicly, or most importantly, the positions they have not taken, I just don’t want to be associated with them until they put their doctrine before their political/financial expedience.

Sure, we are all sinners. From Pope to pauper. But the church hierarchy has a biblical obligation to stand up and be counted. Instead, they pay lip service to politicians. Only recently and in a most minimal way, have they stood up to the assault on Christianity by Obama and other anti christian tyrants, be they presidents or the media types.

There is no excuse for their actions regarding abortion, nor the wholesale attack on the faithful by Islam, the media, Hollywood et all. Where are the warrior Popes? Where are the clergy who used to stand up for their faith? Instead, for decades we have a bunch of men waiting for someone’s permission before speaking the mildest of truths in fear that they will cause grave offense to anyone.
IMO, it’s BS. The Pope, Cardinals, Bishops and Priests all have a duty to either follow their calling or step down. They are leading nothing.

When a president can pull Obama’s crap and not get an immediate reply from the Vatican telling him “No Barack, we are not going to bend over and abandon everything we belive because you said so”...when there are churches offering space to muslims to hold their ‘services’...when there is no direction full scale response at the voting booth, nor excommunication of politicians, hell even a denunciation thereof, that back abortion, homosexuality et all, then there is one serious problem.

The lapsed among us might just come back, should they ever do that. But until then, I have no desire to ‘learn’ from men that apparently do not have enough faith in God to even try following his word.

All that said, don’t take this as a slam to you personally. Nor should any Catholic. Faithful Catholics aren’t the problem. They never were. But until they hold their clergy to account, well, I think the results are obvious.


31 posted on 04/25/2012 1:13:49 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Norm Lenhart

The problem is that if you are ex RC and “do your own thing” you aren’t meeting the Lord in the sacraments. And I find that sad...have you tried going to Eucharistic adoration to pray?


32 posted on 04/25/2012 2:47:15 AM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: Norm Lenhart

Truly we are all sinners, I among them.

It is important to meet the Lord in BOTH the word and in the sacrements.


33 posted on 04/25/2012 3:00:23 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: GeronL
Jesus didn’t found a church

He says flatly in Matthew 16 that that's what he's doing. Didn't he follow through?

34 posted on 04/25/2012 4:57:23 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: ShadowPatriot; All
I'd like to encourage everyone to read the USCCB's Ad Hoc Committee on Religious Liberty's recent statement

This was read from the pulpit, in lieu of a homily, at my parish this past Sunday morning.

I'd like to direct everyone's attention to something made clear in the document: this is not just a Catholic fight. The government -- federal, state, and local -- is out to co-opt and repress Christianity of all flavors. And, contrary to what a couple of Protestant FReepers have said, the Catholic bishops are clearly cognizant of that fact and ready to join the battle for religious liberty for all.

It is also not just a fight on behalf of religious institutions; individuals (e.g., private Christian employers) have the same rights, and are under the same attack ... and the bishops know that as well.

35 posted on 04/25/2012 5:07:58 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion

http://thehayride.com/2012/02/louisiana-college-vs-the-obama-administration-and-the-bible-thumpin-republican-narrative/

Were you aware that Louisiana Bible College is suing the Obama Administration?


36 posted on 04/25/2012 5:14:21 AM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("For the sake of our party we must stand united, whoever our nominee is."-Sarah Palin)
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To: GeronL

Here’s a question you can’t answer..

Where in the Bible is the concept of Sola Scriptura discussed or referenced?

And I’ll take Popes & Saints over folks that would reject a man for not being politically correct any day.


37 posted on 04/25/2012 6:21:35 AM PDT by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: AnalogReigns

I believe you can trace both the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic Church back to Jesus & the Apostles.

Neither of these churches would have turned this man away for his failure to adhere to the ways of the PC world.


38 posted on 04/25/2012 6:24:25 AM PDT by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: ShadowPatriot

Good post. I’ve had somewhat similar experiences in my religious quest.


39 posted on 04/25/2012 6:27:00 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: ShadowPatriot

Your “church” was right about one thing. Try another church. Seriously. Thank God all churches are not PC.


40 posted on 04/25/2012 6:38:34 AM PDT by alnick
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To: ShadowPatriot

I just read all of the comments. Thanks again.


41 posted on 04/25/2012 6:48:06 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: goodnesswins

I have CC but don’t actually carry normally. Nothing is ever said about “allow cc” in Mass because it would never cross anyone’s mind to bring up the subject, much as with coffee during the Homily.


42 posted on 04/25/2012 8:07:21 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: ShadowPatriot

I can see the problem that you have, they do not want you to question any thing about their doctrine and some of them do seem to think much more of obeying the law of the land rather than the law of God.

However there are some ( and it takes a while to see the difference ) that realize that since it is Satan who is the ruler of this earth that we really have no part in it.

If that be the case with your Church then it seems to me they are going way over board, i would do as they suggested, find a Church that preaches the Gospel of Jesus.

As far as baptism is concerned, since you love Jesus you have already been Baptized by the holy spirit, the scriptures say that no one can confess that Jesus is lord except by the holy spirit.

Also
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Satan and his angels were kicked out of heaven when jesus arrived there, they are now here on earth and they are taking over every high place where power and authority can be found.

You are not alone but even though it may look that way do not despair because God knows who his own are.

After having said that with so much confidence i think i have more of a problem than you do, I simply believe that i am unfit to be called a Christian, and i will under no circumstance call my self religious.

I am argumentative, i like the opposite sex too much, basically i am just a piece of dirt or worse that has been dug up many times, polluted and threw back down.

I sometimes feel that the only way i can be saved is to live until the last day persecution of the Christians and die for my faith in Jesus, which i am willing to do but hope i can still hang on to that faith when the time comes.

And you think you have problems?
.


43 posted on 04/25/2012 9:46:56 AM PDT by ravenwolf (reIf you believe that Nero was the anti-Christ, and among othJust a bit of the long list of proofsre)
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To: GeronL

“pray FOR them, not TO them”

Your understanding has the wrong perspective. We pray to saints asking them to join our prayers to God. We request (pray) that the saints in Heaven who can see God face-to-face, take our requests to God.


44 posted on 04/26/2012 4:59:43 AM PDT by Montana_Sam (Truth lives.)
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To: sarasmom

Hi Sara... In your self righteous indignation, I merely posted a blog post that I saw on Boiling The Frogs.. LET ME STATE since you CANNOT READ that my name OBVIOUSLY isnt Joe Dan Gorman who WROTE the blog post. I MERELY posted this on FR in an interest to see other’s thoughts and opinions. SO... you can take your dime store threats somewhere else and dump them on someone who cares what you think. IF you were as smart as you THINK you are, you would SEE that I am NOT the author.


45 posted on 04/26/2012 8:56:26 PM PDT by ShadowPatriot
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To: steve86

I am not the author. I posted this blog post for discussion to see what others thought as I had not read a piece quite like this.


46 posted on 04/26/2012 8:59:18 PM PDT by ShadowPatriot
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To: rwilson99

Thanks for the offer. I did not write this post. I follow this blog and posted to see what others thought as I have not read a piece like this before.


47 posted on 04/26/2012 9:00:47 PM PDT by ShadowPatriot
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To: doc1019

Hi Doc.. I did not write this and this is not my thoughts or opinions. I follow this blog and posted this here because I had not read a piece like this before and wondered what others thought.


48 posted on 04/26/2012 9:02:04 PM PDT by ShadowPatriot
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To: ShadowPatriot

I posted this blog post from boiling the frogs. I did not write it. I follow this blog and posted this for discussion. I see that when you post something, it says “by” you.. and so in the future, I will make sure that I state that this is from a blog. I had never read a piece like this and posted it here for discussion and wonder what others thought as there is a real sickness in some churches today which are described in Revelation. I have received some NASTY ASS COMMENTS from supposed Christians.. and those same “fake” Christians.. are the ones who probably cause the same problems in their churches.


49 posted on 04/26/2012 9:06:58 PM PDT by ShadowPatriot
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To: ShadowPatriot

ALSO... in BIG RED LETTERS is the link to Boiling The Frogs which is the SOURCE of the Blog and on that blog post HAS THE AUTHOR’S NAME.


50 posted on 04/26/2012 9:09:58 PM PDT by ShadowPatriot
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