Posted on 09/24/2009 8:55:54 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
First, an apology for making this a cacused thread. I know that Fundamentalist Protestant FReepers will feel cheated at having their religious beliefs explained by one not of their number, but to leave the thread open would be to invite thousands and thousands of posts, each and every one of them quoting the "new testament" to "prove" this and that. While I am no longer a Fundamentalist Protestant or chr*stian of any kind, I nevertheless used to be one and feel competent to explain their beliefs to Orthodox Jews--especially when those beliefs are so misunderstood and misrepresented.
I also feel compelled to inform the reader that while I am no longer a Protestant or chr*stian of any kind I still very much consider myself to be a Fundamentalist, for two reasons. First, "fundamentalism" as I define the term is the equation of religious truth with actual truth (ie, facts) rather than with allegedly more "profound" non-factual truth (note that this does not at all preclude deep profound truths that lie beneath the surface, nor does it entail a rejection of an authoritative Oral Interpretive Tradition). Secondly, "Fundamentalist" is as much an ethno-cultural designation as a theological one, and this means I was born a "Fundamentalist" and will remain one until I die because I was born a poor Southern rural Anglo-American (ever heard a Black Biblical literalist called a "Fundamentalist?").
Now, having established these parameters, to the gist of this post.
A very devout, very learned, and in fact very "fundamentalist" (non-Modern) Orthodox rabbi for whom I have the greatest respect has a video at his web site (otherwise I could not share this information) in which he says that no matter how pro-Israel or pro-Jewish Fundamentalist chr*stians may be, their friendship can never be fully accepted because they still believe that Jews "go to hell," which he interprets as the belief that Jews are "evil" and that Fundamentalist chr*stians must hate Jews if they believe such a thing. And I'm sorry, but this isn't true. Fundamentalist chr*stians do not believe that Jews are any more "evil" than any human being (including Fundamentalist chr*stians themselves) nor do they hate them. The fact is that, just as Fundamentalist chr*stians misunderstand Judaism because they impose their own worldview onto it, Orthodox Jews misunderstand the purpose of Fundamentalist chr*stianity, and that purpose is not to create good people or to suffuse the lower world with G-dliness. It is "to save souls."
In the Fundamentalist chr*stian worldview, every human being born into the world since the sin in the Garden is born "damned." He is born that way because thanks to "the Devil" he has something G-d never intended him to have--an evil inclination. You see, as they understand it, G-d, being good and perfect, simply cannot be responsible for the existence of evil or imperfection in any way whatsoever. In fact, He cannot abide it. His only option, compelled by His own holiness, is to "damn" every human being who is flawed and imperfect. Sounds harsh? Well, to you it does. To them it makes perfect sense. Get set for some real "multiculturalism," Reader!
Now every human being born into the world (though the Jewish mystical tradition disagrees here) has certainly been born with an evil inclination--a yetzer hara`. It is this, and not the actions to which it leads, that deserves "eternal damnation." The yetzer hara` is like a disease, and actual individual sins are like the symptoms of that disease. In any diseased population there will be some variety in the manifestation of symptoms. But the disease, along with its consequences, is present in all. This means that for the Fundamentalist Protestant (just as an example) both Joseph Stalin and Mother Teresa are equally worthy of damnation. The fact that the former manifested more symptoms--ie, more actual sins and acts of evil--has nothing to do with it. They both were born with the disease. Both deserved, and were destined, for "eternal damnation." Fundamentalist Protestants in no way hated Mother Teresa, nor did they consider her "evil" in the same sense that they consider Joseph Stalin to have been evil. But they insist that they both had the same "disease."
So if G-d did not create the yetzer hara`, who did? Their answer: "the Devil." Here G-d had created a world every bit as perfect, flawless, and sinless as Himself (being holy, He could have created no other kind) when along comes an evil supernatural counterpart and mucks the whole thing up. The world that was intended by G-d to be as perfect and sublime as Himself was now flawed and imperfect, and the Good G-d can respond to imperfection in only one way. Yes, like "Nomad" on that episode of "Star Trek." And a lack of personal sins or the presence of great personal holiness in this or that individual doesn't change a thing. Yes, so-and-so may have blessedly few symptoms, but the disease of imperfection is still present.
So G-d hit upon a wonderfully ingenious plan that would provide a loophole for each individual while still allowing Him to maintain His holiness by damning every single imperfect individual cursed with a yetzer hara`. [`Avodah zarah warning: read the following with caution] He would, chas vechalilah, incarnate Himself as a human being and then, chas vechalilah, vicariously damn Himself in the place of every single solitary human being who would ever live. This way He gets to maintain His holiness by damning every flawed, imperfect, sinful being (ie, every being with a yetzer hara`) while everyone has the opportunity to not actually experience this damnation personally. The catch: to take advantage of this loophole one must explicitly "accept" it. Every single solitary human being who does not explicitly accept this "gift of salvation" must, by G-d's holiness, be eternally damned. As for those who do accept it, they still deserve to be damned, but they can't go to "hell" because in G-d's eyes they're already there!
Sof davar hakol nishma`. Period. End of story. That's it, people. There are no commandments to observe and, actually, no "religion" to "practice." There is only this one-time-only acceptance of the "gift" and that's the end of the whole thing. It's not so much a "religion" as an innoculation program. The sole purpose for living for each and every Fundamentalist Protestant (unless they're Calvinists or universalists, and some are) is to help innoculate each and ever single human being. Now, from the perspective of Orthodox Judaism/Noachism this is horrifying, but these people do not have that perspective. It's a different religion, people. That means a different worldview and a different purpose. And to expect them remain chr*stians and not have this attitude is absolutely unreasonable and utterly impossible for them in good conscience. If they shared the Orthodox Jewish/Noachide worldview they wouldn't be chr*stians in the first place!
Like I said: real multiculturalism!
So what is to be done? Why, the answer is simple: convert them.
No, not to Judaism, but to the Noachide Laws, the true and only G-d-authorized religion for all non-Jewish humanity.
What is the root of this entire erroneous worldview? A denial of One G-d. A belief in an evil counterpart of G-d who spoiled G-d's perfect creation and in fact acted as a sort of co-creator, G-d forbid, in that he helped produce the world as it exists today. They don't understand that G-d, by His Blessed Will, intentionally created this lowest of all worlds with all its imperfections (even before the sin in the Garden). They have never heard of the first sin in history being committed by the ground before man was even created, or of the envy of the moon, or that HaShem Himself mandated a "sin offering" in His own behalf for having reduced the moon. They do not understand that G-d created the yetzer hara` and placed it within Adam before the commandment not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge had even been given. They do not understand that G-d Alone rules supreme and absolutely and that HaSatan is merely one of His angels doing his job, like all the others.
Do you know why they don't know this? I'll tell you why.
No one has ever told them!
And why has no one ever told them these things? That's simple also. It's because they were too busy calling them "haters" and "bigots" and "intolerant" to do so. And when they weren't calling them that they were trying to make liberal chr*stians out of them. How many millions and millions of dollars have been spent on "museums of tolerance," "brotherhood" campaigns, or propaganda to convince Fundamentalist chr*stians that "all religions and all 'gxds' are equally valid?" (And how in the name of all that is reasonable can anyone who goes by the name of Jew propagandize for such a thing?) And so long as Fundamentalist chr*stians sincerely believe that G-d wants them to "save" every single human being they will continue to try to do so and nothing you can say or do will dissuade them. You may criminalize chr*stian proselyitism, but all you will do is make Fundamentalist chr*stians into criminals by doing so. What if the government outlawed circumcision or eating matztzot during Pesach or qeri'at shema`? Whom would you obey--men or G-d? Then why do you ask Fundamentalist chr*stians to behave differently? They will stop trying to "innoculate" the world for only one reason: because they know that G-d has not commanded this. Once they know that they are not presently objectively obeying G-d then they will be able to stop proselytizing with a clear conscience. Until then each and every one of them feels personally responsible for every single individual who dies "unsaved." Considering that fact, I think they display remarkable restraint. They actually deserve to be praised, not calumniated for their "intolerance."
I myself can personally testify as to how liberating learning the Truth can be. I had always believed that after "Satan" had (chas vechalilah!) "run G-d off His throne" that he had "taken over" as the "gxd of this world" and that ever since Adam "acquired" the yetzer hara` by eating the fruit that I and every single human being was born the property of "Satan." By nature, he was our "gxd." G-d, the One, A-mighty, Omnipotent G-d, the King of the Kings of the Kings, was no longer naturally G-d. He didn't become a person's G-d until they received their innoculation. Until that point "Satan,"and not G-d, was "gxd." No matter how much I loved and desired Him, no matter how much I prayed to Him, He was not my G-d and would never be my G-d until I had received my "innoculation" (the "assurance" of which I never had, which meant that I had not received the "innoculation" at all even after doing everything I was supposed to to receive it). Do you know how astounding it is to Fundamentalist chr*stians to see Jews calling G-d their Father and enjoying a relationship with Him without having to ever pass "from nature to grace?" The idea that every single human being already has a relationship with G-d merely because He is our Creator and L-rd, is absolutely incomprehensible to them. Yet they already have this relationship. And all they have yet to do is to acknowledge it and accept HaShem as their G-d to complete the process. No "innoculation" or "salvation experience" required.
Before closing bringing this vanity to a close I would like to address two other areas. The first is the difference between Fundamentalist Protestant and ancient liturgical chr*stians; the second is the issue of Jews, especially Orthodox Jews, promoting "tolerance" as the greatest virtue.
On the surface, Orthodox Jews will feel much less afraid of and much more comfortable with Catholic, Orthodox, Non-Chalcaedonian, and Non-Ephesine chr*stians. This is somewhat ironic considering that it is precisely these churches that have committed the vast majority of all chr*stian atrocities against the Jewish People. But they do not proselytize--in fact, are as opposed to Protestant missionaries as Jews are--(being, like Judaism, essentially ethnic religions, however "universal" they proclaim themselves to be), and they do not subscribe to the radical antinomian "loophole" soteriology I have elucidated above (since they hold that the world has been "redeemed" for two thousand years and every human being born since that time is born into a "redeemed" world and assumed to be somewhere on "the path of redemption" himself). However, this is not to their credit. Fundamentalist Protestants have taken the Pauline doctrine of the inadequacy of the "Law" (the Holy Torah) and have very logically and consistently applied it to all human effort. The more ancient versions of chr*stianity, on the other hand, have restricted Paul's critique of "the law" to the Holy Torah. It alone is useless. It alone has been replaced. Natural human efforts to the good are still valid and useful, and of course they claim that after abrogating the Torah (G-d forbid!!!) G-d immediately replaced it with the laws, ceremonials, and customs of chr*stianity (chr*stmas replacing Pesach, rosary beads replacing tefillin, etc.). However easier to get along with these chr*stians are (at least in the modern world), their animus to the Torah is much greater because it alone is rejected as "insufficient for salvation" ("salvation" not being its purpose to begin with). In rejecting all human effort--and very much rejecting traditional chr*stian law and ceremonial--Fundamentalist Protestants are acknowledging that no law could ever be greater than the Holy Torah. If it is (chas vechalilah!) "insufficient," then so is all human action. And contrariwise, if any human action had any merit at all, it would be obedience to the Holy Torah. It must also be remembered that Fundamentalist Protestant antinomianism and rejection of "unwritten tradition" was not formed in opposition to Judaism but to Catholicism.
Then of course there is the fact the that "tolerant" and "philo-Semitic" chr*stians whom most Jews prefer to the Fundamentalists almost always have a very low view of the Torah and deny that any authorititative Revelation has ever occurred in history, but that all claimants at such revelation are myths. Of course such people don't believe that Jews "go to hell." They don't believe anyone does! And yes they "respect" Judaism--but no more and no less than any other religion on the face of the earth, since they are all "equally valid." Why in the world would Orthodox Jews want to encourage such an erroneous attitude?
And this serves as a useful segueway to my final point, which is that Orthodox Jews have no business promoting "tolerance" in the first place, and for a very good reason: Orthodox Jews are Monotheists (indeed, the only true Monotheists), and Monotheism is the antithesis of "tolerance." A "monotheist" who advocates "tolerance" as the supreme virtue is like a square circle--a contradiction in terms. If it's tolerance you want, then I have the perfect solution for you: polytheism. It's the most tolerant religion in the world! The rabbi I mentioned at the beginning of this vanity points out in his videos that until chr*stianity arose there was no "anti-Semitism" in the modern sense of the word and that the ancient world, with some exceptions, was very "tolerant" of Jews. But the ancient world was polytheistic! Of course when non-Jews abandoned polytheism for a watered-down monotheism they became intolerant. Monotheism teaches that G-d is a Jealous G-d, not a "tolerant G-d!" For any Jew to proclaim in one breath that the essence of Judaism is undying warfare against polytheism and in the next that Judaism teaches tolerance of all other faiths is to flatly contradict oneself. If Jews want a tolerant world, Jews should drop Monotheism at once and become crusaders for the restoration of ancient polytheism.
I would like to make just one more point. It is often pointed out that Judaism teaches that "the righteous of the nations have a portion in the World To Come," but this is grossly misunderstood. The "righteous of the nations," objectively speaking, are observant Noachides, not "all good people regardless of what they believe." Once again, this is objectively speaking. Subjectively speaking, only G-d alone can judge the heart of each individual and know whether that person would be an observant Noachide if he understood this to be G-d's Will. However, speaking objectively again, all non-Jews are commanded to relinquish all false religions (including "monotheistic" ones like chr*stianity and islam) and accept and abide by the Seven Noachide Commandments and all their implications (with repentance always available for our failures, thank G-d!). So once again Judaism, while it does not and has never sought to make Jews out of all humanity (the Jews are a small chosen nation), are nevertheless commanded to "compel"--not "suggest," but compel--all mankind to abandon their false "gxds" and their idols and accept HaShem and His Laws. So much for "the righteous of the nations have a portion in the World To Come" making this unnecessary.
In closing, I apologize for my often blunt and corrective language in addressing Orthodox Jewish FReepers who for the most part are not guilty of the things I wish to correct, but as the case of the pious rabbi I mentioned illustrates, even the most understanding of Torah Jews do not truly understand the Fundamentalist Protestants because they do not share their worldview. I have elucidated that worldview to the best of my poor ability not to proselytize for it (G-d forbid!) but to make it better understood so that its adherents may be better apprised of their true duties to G-d and be liberated from all false and erroneous religious doctrines.
May HaShem direct this to the hearts of those who need to understand.
Customary Jewish popular thinking about Christianity is out of touch and deeply misinformed. In contrast, leading conservative Christian and Jewish intellectuals today regard each others' faith with deep appreciation. Commentary regularly demonstrates sympathy for Christianity, and First Things similarly demonstrates sympathy for Judaism.
What happens to people who sin without atonement?
“Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.”
Pardon me for quoting the NT portion of God’s revelation, but are you of the opinion that Torah-trained Paul, the former Saul of Tarsus studied at the feet of Gamaliel, was making new stuff up when he wrote:
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, (Romans 3)Is it your opinion that Christ Himself was lying when He taught, "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: … And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Or perhaps just mistaken?
Please do not highjack this thread, whose purpose is explaining that Fundamentalist Protestants are “haters” and bigots.” Thank you. :-)
You know, that's exactly what I used to think! Then the Catholics and Orthodox taught me that the original chr*stians were Catholics/Orthodox who rejected original sin and didn't think there was anything wrong with anybody. Well, more the Orthodox than the Catholics (I once even had an Orthodox priest tell me there was absolutely no difference whatsoever between me sitting right there and then and Adam in the Garden).
Perhaps you should take an occasional break from your obsession with dispensationalism and do some arguing with your more "authenic" co-religionists, no?
In the meantime, thank you for not hijacking this thread!
Thank you for understanding!
This is the chr*stian position. It is not the Jewish position, since it assumes the inspiration of the "new testament," which Jews and Noachides do not.
OR a cat jumps on the keyboard.
My comment was sincere. I'm not in a position to know whether your facts are accurate, but your essay is neatly composed and well-organized.
::Sigh:: I wish our little cat were still here to jump on the keyboard. We're still grieving after losing him two weeks ago.
My comment was sincere.
My thanks are equally sincere.
I'm not in a position to know whether your facts are accurate,
Well, I used to be a Fundamentalist Protestant, then I was Catholic for six years, and I've also studied Eastern/Oriental chr*stianity, and I know for a fact that everything Fundamentalist Protestants assume about the chr*stian religion is denied by the ancient churches: total depravity, being born "damned," the vicarious damnation of J*sus in the sinner's place . . . all these are declared "Protestant errors" with no roots in chr*stian history. Roman Catholics say that man "fell from grace" (not the same thing as being turned from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde!) and that J*sus never suffered the G-d's wrath vicariously (there's a thread on the subject right now), and Eastern Orthodoxy rejects even original sin itself and the very notion of J*sus' death offering "satisfaction" for G-d's wrath against Adam (they prefer the "ransom" or "mousetrap" theory). And when chr*stianity starts claiming that "most people don't deserve to go to hell," why . . . the jig is up.
I can tell you exactly the moment I became a convinced Noachide and all my spiritual searching was over. I had left the Catholic Church and an Eastern Orthodox friend had loaned me a booklet on his faith. In it the writer railed on and on against the "arch-heretic" Augustine the "pagan" notion of original sin, which he attributed to Greek paganism. Do you know where this Eastern Orthodox writer claimed to find the "true doctrine" of human nature? I'll tell you exactly where he found it: in the Talmud! I took that as an admission that Judaism had been right all along and that no chr*stian religion was necessary. How someone could write such a thing and still defend any form of chr*stianity is beyond me.
I tell you this to let you know where I'm coming from, not to belittle anyone.
but your essay is neatly composed and well-organized.
Thank you again. Having "been there," I understand that Fundamentalist chr*stians do not "hate" anybody nor do they think that Jews are "evil"--merely "unsaved," like all the rest of "unsaved" humanity! I'm sorry that the two groups have so misunderstood each other and in my own poor way, I am actually trying to help and ultimately, to convert my own beloved people (and everyone else) to what I sincerely believe to be G-d's truth. Therefore I understand the proselytary impulse in others, whether chr*stians or moslems.
I think that's quite reasonable.
And I'm very sorry about your cat. One of ours died back in August, but we have one left. Although she attacked the greyhound's tail a few minutes ago ... if she tries that again, we may be out of cats. It's a very mild-mannered dog, but she can only take so much!
ZC,
Can you do me a favor?
You always post “chr*stians”. Why?
What I am asking is this: Do you believe Jesus is God?
If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
..................
Yes?
Can you do me a favor?
Monsieur, as much as it is in my power (Claude Rains reference).
You always post “chr*stians”. Why?
I explained this in an earlier post on this thread.
What I am asking is this: Do you believe Jesus is God?
No I do not, and I don't understand why you can know that I am an observant Noachide and still have to ask the question. Observant Noachides, by definition, do not believe in J*sus or any other "gxd" but HaShem Alone.
No hostility is intended in any of this.
I am “fundamentally” speechless here.
I don’t know what site the Rabbi you mentioned has, and from the looks of it, it seems like an over-rationalization to explain something that really is self-explanatory.
Original sin is knowledge. And knowledge is NOT a sin. It’s what you do with it.
ONLY G-d could create evil because otherwise it could not exist. And from my point of view, who is a mere man to question G-d? For that matter, what man can possibly know the mind of G-d?
If you want to go the extra mile and say for the sake of argument that the BIBLE is EXACTLY the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then I have to ask this question.
WHY would G-d want a bunch of slow, stupid, lemminglike creatures who could never have survived in such a state created in the IMAGE of G-d? It doesn’t follow. Why put the Tree of Knowledge anywhere if we were never supposed to learn?
Just food for thought.
ZC,
You wrote:
“No I do not, and I don’t understand why you can know that I am an observant Noachide and still have to ask the question.”
I ask because it makes no sense for you to type out the name of someone whom you don’t believe is God with a letter missing like that. Jews often do that for the name of God. If you don’t believe Jesus is God, then there’s no sense in doing it. And since no one believes Christians are God, there is no reason at all to do it as you do.
I just read your explanation in the post far above. (sigh) I can’t see how that makes sense. I’m not trying to pick on you. Honestly.
I'm a little speechless myself, as I don't quite know what you're getting at. Boy, did I open up a can of worms or what?
"Original sin" is not knowledge. Before eating from the tree Adam certainly had plenty of knowledge--more than we have today. "Original sin" is a specifically Roman Catholic term used to mean two different things: 1)hache't haqadmon (the first sin, the eating of the fruit by Adam), and 2)hayetzer hara`, the evil inclination which G-d placed within Adam to begin with but over which he lost his original control after the sin.
ONLY G-d could create evil because otherwise it could not exist.
Unfortunately, not everyone understands that. Instead they posit an evil counterpart to G-d who made all the "bad stuff." Note however that G-d is good--He is neither evil (G-d forbid!) nor indifferent to evil (G-d forbid!) but uses evil for His own good and holy purposes in ways we can never understand from the point of view of the physical world.
And from my point of view, who is a mere man to question G-d?
Word! I feel you!
For that matter, what man can possibly know the mind of G-d?
We can't. We can only know what He has chosen to reveal, and that we can be sure of.
If you want to go the extra mile and say for the sake of argument that the BIBLE is EXACTLY the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then I have to ask this question.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Do you mean the chr*stian "bible?" I reject the "new testament" as false. Do you mean the TaNa"KH? It consists of three separate strata: the first written by G-d, the second inspired by the spirit of prophecy, and the under "Divine inspiration." Each of these latter two strata are written under an inspiration that is a step lower than the one that preceded it. The Torah alone was written directly by G-d Himself and is of fully Divine origin.
Do you mean the what is written in the TaNa"KH only and not what is in the Oral Torah? I accept the Oral Torah as having been given to Israel at Sinai at the very beginning and reject what Catholics call "sola scriptura." I most definitely believe in the legitimate, immemorial Authoritative Oral Interpretive Tradition, though not to any pretenders to that title. If you are asking if I believe that we know everything there is to know, I say of course not. If you are asking if I believe the Torah or Na"KH is a mere human work that contains mistakes, then no, I don't.
WHY would G-d want a bunch of slow, stupid, lemminglike creatures who could never have survived in such a state created in the IMAGE of G-d?
I don't know. Since I never suggested such a thing ('Adam HaRi'shon "slow" and "stupid"???), perhaps you can hunt down whoever you are arguing with and correct him.
It doesn’t follow. Why put the Tree of Knowledge anywhere if we were never supposed to learn?
Just food for thought.
Ah, you're implying that G-d didn't really mean it when He forbade Adam to eat of the tree. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that. At the same time the eating was foreknown from all eternity, already written in the Torah, and governed at all times by G-d's All-Embracing Providence.
You ask me how this is explained. I'll tell you:
I don't know! (Tevye reference)
I hope this response satisfied whatever issues you were raising.
Jews avoid writing in full names and words for G-d, that is true. They also avoid writing out the names of false "gxds" for the precisely opposite reason. I don't just refrain from writing out the full name of J*sus, but also of all false "gxds," including those for which the days of the week and months of the year are named (not to mention planets). I do it as a religious scruple and not to offend or hurt anyone, and I explained why I use the "*" rather than the "X." At one time I thought chr*stians would at least appreciate my going to the extra effort to let them use the "X" themselves in good conscience, but none ever has and I suppose none ever will.
I just read your explanation in the post far above. (sigh) I can’t see how that makes sense. I’m not trying to pick on you. Honestly.
Unfortunately, I can only do my best to explain. If my best isn't good enough, I am not going to be able to explain it to you.
Be well.
Then why only forbid Adama and NOT Eve? There are two Genesis stories. In neither one was Eve forbidden to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.
AND YET, Christianity blames women for the sins of the world.
The Hebrew Mystics hid knowledge and kept it to themselves. It was a means of control. I don’t care how long you study. There are truths and then there is THE TRUTH.
Moses had his hands full trying to get stubborn people to understand why it was absolutely necessary to understand that without ONE, TRUE G-D, there could never be anything as elusive as freedom.
G-D gave man dominion over the beasts, not over each other.
Those who replace G-D with ANYthing have added a link in a mental chain that is hard to break. It is a weakness and yet another means of control and one step further away from TRUTH.
Abraham knew it. Moses knew it. The Romans knew it. Paul knew it. And Paul used it to help the Romans destroy the Jews.
I try not to comment on religious threads, but I’m sure ZC will engage you. I obviously don’t accept the Christian concept of original sin, and don’t know what the Rabbi’s case is regarding Christians. While I understand the concept if the conclusion is that support for Israel shouldn’t be accepted from Christians I doubt I would agree, but if it’s on the web a link might be interesting to read. IMO that’s a secular rather than religious issue.
SJackson, Israel needs all the friends it can get. The mistrust comes in the prosletyzing. That is what gets to some Jews. I don’t care about it for myself. And I seriously wonder why adults would worry about it either. If you are secure in your belief, good on ya. But if you can be so easily swayed from it, then what good are ya? That’s the gist of it.
If you want to protect your children, be a strong parent and teach them the way they should go. If they later choose differently, they were not persuaded.
If you did not teach them, someone else will, and THAT is on you.
If Judaism could be boiled down to ONE word, it would be LEARN. Never stop questioning and never stop learning. That is why the Kabbalah will never be finished. There is ALWAYS something to learn.
PS. I try not to comment on religious threads either. I’m too stubborn and headstrong.
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