Posted on 07/23/2007 7:40:23 PM PDT by topcat54
A number of years ago, when my son was young, we attended a baseball game. Not only was my son a baseball fan, but he was also an avid collector of baseball cards. When we arrived at the ballpark, though, I noticed that he seemed more interested in looking at the pictures of the players on his cards than in watching the ball players on the field. In my astonishment I asked him, "Why are you looking at the pictures, when the real living players are standing right in front of you?"
What my son did with baseball cards and players, many Jewish Christians today do with their faith. Embracing a concept known as Messianic Judaism, these Jewish believers emphasize Old Testament laws and practices (such as dietary laws, feasts, and Sabbath days) as the way to please God. Yet Paul referred to these kinds of observances as "shadows" pointing to the reality of Jesus Christ (Col. 2:16, 17). The Old Testament presented many shadowy pictures of the coming Messiah in the form of ritualistic laws and ceremonies. These shadows were never intended to be a permanent fixture of Christianity. Along with the rest of the Mosaic Law, these pictures were designed by God to be "our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come we are no longer under a tutor" (Galatians 3:24, 25). Just as it is foolish for a someone to be enthralled with pictures of ballplayers rather than the players themselves, so it is inappropriate for messianic believers to focus on outdated pictures about Messiah rather than the reality of His presence.
(Excerpt) Read more at teampyro.blogspot.com ...
I have wanted to participate in the Passover celebration for many years. Also, I believe during the reign of the Messiah, we will all be celebrating the Feast of Tabernacles. Looking ahead is hard for us all to do. I tend to think about Jerusalem as the city of the Great King, and when I pray for our troops, I pray towards Jerusalem, where one day our Lord will be. I do not pray to Jerusalem, but I think about how wonderful it will be when He returns. He is coming. He’s going to be angry when He first gets here(He is angry now), but He’ll straighten it all out.
No.
Why? The Passover was a mere shadow that was only for a people before the coming of Messiah.
Christ is our Passover. When we come before Him in the truth of gospel worship we have the true Passover, not the shadowy figure that was destined to fade away along with the rest of the old covenant (Heb 8:13).
I wonder if Jesus is also angery at those who continue to worship Him according to the shadows of a faded covenant.
Anything that leads people to the Truth of Jesus Christ is a good thing.
There’s a new group starting up called Christians for Mohammed, which is coming to speak at your church next week.
They are Christians, but believe that Mohammed is the Second coming of Jesus Christ, so that the Christians need to accept Mohammed’s teachings, or burn for an eternity in Hell.
I hope you will welcome them with open arms, there are several dozen of them, and they have lists of phone numbers of people in your congregation and will be contacting each of you.
Enjoy, and remember, they are Christians, so they are just like you.
Here’s a Koran.
God can use a person's drug addiction to bring them to Christ. Does that make drug addiction "a good thing"?
Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. That is His promise. He does not promise to work through means that passed away millennia ago and which only exist today in a perverted form.
To learn more about how the foreshadowing was worked out by God throughout history, and experience it. I often wonder how Jesus will govern. Any ideas?
Since the old covenant Passover of God ceased to be legitimately performed 2000 years ago, how can you claim to be experiencing it today?
All you are left with is the ersatz passover following the traditions of the apostate rabbis from the middle ages.
I often wonder how Jesus will govern. Any ideas?
Since Christ is already governing from the throne of David in heaven, I'm not sure what you mean.
"For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death." (1 Cor. 15:25,26)
He governs by subduing the nations with the gospel.
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." (Matt. 28:19,20)
but that can’t be ???? didn’t Mohammed replace Jesus as the representative to man? maybe I’m confused, too many messiahs to keep up with...
You’re finally onto something. Messianic “Judaism” is more an affront to Jews than your brand of anti-Jewish replacement supercessionism.
As a Messianic Rabbi, let me clear up a few things:
1) We do not keep Torah “to please God” in the way you seem to mean. We keep it because we believe that is the way He calls His Redeemed People — Jewish and non-Jewish — to live. In fact, I am writing a book on this subject that I plan to self-publish in the next month or so.
2) “Fulfillment” of Commandments — by Yeshua (Jesus) or anyone else does not nullify them. Such an argument has no basis in Scripture.
3) The idea of comparing Messianics to people who believe Mohammed is the Second Coming is ludicrous. All of Yeshua’s original followers — indeed, most of His followers until the year 200 or later — Believed Him and kept Torah... in other words, they are what we are today.
For more on what true Messianic Judaism is — and is not — check out the “About Us” page of my congregation’s website at http://beit-tefillah.com/about/index .
Look forward to it.
1) We do not keep Torah “to please God” in the way you seem to mean. We keep it because we believe that is the way He calls His Redeemed People — Jewish and non-Jewish — to live. In fact, I am writing a book on this subject that I plan to self-publish in the next month or so.
There is much written in the New Testament about the ending of the old covenant commandments that were specifically tied to Israel in the land and used to separated Israel culturally from the surrounding nations. Such laws serve no purpose under the term of the new covenant made in the blood of Christ for a catholic (universal) people of God. “There is neither Jew nor Greek” in the sight of God.
We see that primarily in Galatians and Hebrews.
I realize many messiancs have reinterpreted much of the NT to account for their traditions (and the traditions of apostate rabbis being incorporated into the Church), but the Church for 2000 years has understood the ending of the old covenant is a very different way.
2) “Fulfillment” of Commandments — by Yeshua (Jesus) or anyone else does not nullify them. Such an argument has no basis in Scripture.
So, you still sacrifice animals on Passover and spread their blood on the door of your home as part of your “Torah” observances?
3) The idea of comparing Messianics to people who believe Mohammed is the Second Coming is ludicrous.
That was not my issue.
All of Yeshua’s original followers — indeed, most of His followers until the year 200 or later — Believed Him and kept Torah... in other words, they are what we are today.
That is a highly debatable claim, and one that is contradicted specifically by the decision of the Church in Acts 15 where the rules for an integrated, racially indistinguishable Church were identified and promulgated by the apostles.
For more on what true Messianic Judaism is — and is not — check out the “About Us” page of my congregation’s website at http://beit-tefillah.com/about/index .
You might wish to read Judaism is not Jewish: A friendly critique of the Messianic Movement by Baruch Maoz. It’s a fascinating book.
See the book of Hebrews, Galatians 1-4, and Colossians 2. As Kreloff pointed out, the law contained imagery and foreshadowings of Christ, but now that He has come and fulfilled that which the sacrifices and ceremonies only pictured, to emphasize those things betrays a lack of faith in the true Great High Priest and Once-for-All Atonement.People in the OT were indeed justified by faith (Gen. 15; Romans 4; Galatians 3). But even in the OT, if someone regarded the law as a means of gaining merit with God, that reflected a lack of authentic faith.
That's even more true today when someone shows an undue obsession with the (already fulfilled and now abrogated) ceremonial and figurative aspects of the OT law--which is what much of Messianic Judaism is all about.
Interesting sounding book there.
Some replies:
>> 1) We do not keep Torah “to please God” in the way you
>> seem to mean. We keep it because we believe that is the
>> way He calls His Redeemed People — Jewish and non-Jewish
>> — to live. In fact, I am writing a book on this subject
>> that I plan to self-publish in the next month or so.
>
> There is much written in the New Testament about the
> ending of the old covenant commandments that were
> specifically tied to Israel in the land and used to
> separated Israel culturally from the surrounding nations.
> Such laws serve no purpose under the term of the new
> covenant made in the blood of Christ for a catholic
> (universal) people of God. “There is neither Jew nor
> Greek” in the sight of God.
While I agree there is neither Jew nor Gentile in God’s eyes, it is a misinterpretation to assume this means we should all become pagan in our way of life, which is how the Church has interpreted that statement. Romans 11 makes it clear that you are grafted into Israel by faith in Messiah. The major identifying characteristic of being of Israel is Torah.
As for the new covenant, there is only one place in Scripture that gives us the criteria for how we are to judge living under the new covenant — Jeremiah 31 — and it’s plain we are not there yet. Our faith has reserved our spot under the new covenant, but it is clear we’re not living in that age yet.
> We see that primarily in Galatians and Hebrews.
Which have been GROSSLY misinterpreted by the Church.
> I realize many messiancs have reinterpreted much of the NT
> to account for their traditions (and the traditions of
> apostate rabbis being incorporated into the Church), but
> the Church for 2000 years has understood the ending of the
> old covenant is a very different way.
Not 2000 years; more like 1700 years.
>> 2) “Fulfillment” of Commandments — by Yeshua (Jesus) or
>> anyone else does not nullify them. Such an argument has
>> no basis in Scripture.
>
> So, you still sacrifice animals on Passover and spread
> their blood on the door of your home as part of your
> “Torah” observances?
No. First off, the spreading of the blood was done once, on the first Passover. Secondly, the sacrifices (animal and other) are specifically commanded to be done at the Temple or Tabernacle and, without one extant, we are FORBIDDEN from keeping those commandments by the commandments themselves!
>> 3) The idea of comparing Messianics to people who believe
>> Mohammed is the Second Coming is ludicrous.
>
> That was not my issue.
I know, I was replying to one of your other responders.
>> All of Yeshua’s original followers — indeed, most of His
>> followers until the year 200 or later — Believed Him and
>> kept Torah... in other words, they are what we are today.
>
> That is a highly debatable claim,
Not if you read Scripture. It plainly shows that all the Believers were “zealous for the Torah.”
> and one that is contradicted specifically by the decision
> of the Church in Acts 15 where the rules for an
> integrated, racially indistinguishable Church were
> identified and promulgated by the apostles.
Acts 15 is one of the most grossly misunderstood passages in Scripture. My teaching on the subject can be found at:
http://beit-tefillah.com/resources/acts15.html
> You might wish to read Judaism is not Jewish: A friendly
> critique of the Messianic Movement by Baruch Maoz. It’s a
> fascinating book.
I’ll add it to my massive list of things I need to read.
It negates Judaism.
Very well done!
Whatever you are, it's not Jewish. Once you accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah, that is no longer Judaism.
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