Look forward to it.
1) We do not keep Torah “to please God” in the way you seem to mean. We keep it because we believe that is the way He calls His Redeemed People — Jewish and non-Jewish — to live. In fact, I am writing a book on this subject that I plan to self-publish in the next month or so.
There is much written in the New Testament about the ending of the old covenant commandments that were specifically tied to Israel in the land and used to separated Israel culturally from the surrounding nations. Such laws serve no purpose under the term of the new covenant made in the blood of Christ for a catholic (universal) people of God. “There is neither Jew nor Greek” in the sight of God.
We see that primarily in Galatians and Hebrews.
I realize many messiancs have reinterpreted much of the NT to account for their traditions (and the traditions of apostate rabbis being incorporated into the Church), but the Church for 2000 years has understood the ending of the old covenant is a very different way.
2) “Fulfillment” of Commandments — by Yeshua (Jesus) or anyone else does not nullify them. Such an argument has no basis in Scripture.
So, you still sacrifice animals on Passover and spread their blood on the door of your home as part of your “Torah” observances?
3) The idea of comparing Messianics to people who believe Mohammed is the Second Coming is ludicrous.
That was not my issue.
All of Yeshua’s original followers — indeed, most of His followers until the year 200 or later — Believed Him and kept Torah... in other words, they are what we are today.
That is a highly debatable claim, and one that is contradicted specifically by the decision of the Church in Acts 15 where the rules for an integrated, racially indistinguishable Church were identified and promulgated by the apostles.
For more on what true Messianic Judaism is — and is not — check out the “About Us” page of my congregation’s website at http://beit-tefillah.com/about/index .
You might wish to read Judaism is not Jewish: A friendly critique of the Messianic Movement by Baruch Maoz. It’s a fascinating book.
Interesting sounding book there.
Some replies:
>> 1) We do not keep Torah “to please God” in the way you
>> seem to mean. We keep it because we believe that is the
>> way He calls His Redeemed People — Jewish and non-Jewish
>> — to live. In fact, I am writing a book on this subject
>> that I plan to self-publish in the next month or so.
>
> There is much written in the New Testament about the
> ending of the old covenant commandments that were
> specifically tied to Israel in the land and used to
> separated Israel culturally from the surrounding nations.
> Such laws serve no purpose under the term of the new
> covenant made in the blood of Christ for a catholic
> (universal) people of God. “There is neither Jew nor
> Greek” in the sight of God.
While I agree there is neither Jew nor Gentile in God’s eyes, it is a misinterpretation to assume this means we should all become pagan in our way of life, which is how the Church has interpreted that statement. Romans 11 makes it clear that you are grafted into Israel by faith in Messiah. The major identifying characteristic of being of Israel is Torah.
As for the new covenant, there is only one place in Scripture that gives us the criteria for how we are to judge living under the new covenant — Jeremiah 31 — and it’s plain we are not there yet. Our faith has reserved our spot under the new covenant, but it is clear we’re not living in that age yet.
> We see that primarily in Galatians and Hebrews.
Which have been GROSSLY misinterpreted by the Church.
> I realize many messiancs have reinterpreted much of the NT
> to account for their traditions (and the traditions of
> apostate rabbis being incorporated into the Church), but
> the Church for 2000 years has understood the ending of the
> old covenant is a very different way.
Not 2000 years; more like 1700 years.
>> 2) “Fulfillment” of Commandments — by Yeshua (Jesus) or
>> anyone else does not nullify them. Such an argument has
>> no basis in Scripture.
>
> So, you still sacrifice animals on Passover and spread
> their blood on the door of your home as part of your
> “Torah” observances?
No. First off, the spreading of the blood was done once, on the first Passover. Secondly, the sacrifices (animal and other) are specifically commanded to be done at the Temple or Tabernacle and, without one extant, we are FORBIDDEN from keeping those commandments by the commandments themselves!
>> 3) The idea of comparing Messianics to people who believe
>> Mohammed is the Second Coming is ludicrous.
>
> That was not my issue.
I know, I was replying to one of your other responders.
>> All of Yeshua’s original followers — indeed, most of His
>> followers until the year 200 or later — Believed Him and
>> kept Torah... in other words, they are what we are today.
>
> That is a highly debatable claim,
Not if you read Scripture. It plainly shows that all the Believers were “zealous for the Torah.”
> and one that is contradicted specifically by the decision
> of the Church in Acts 15 where the rules for an
> integrated, racially indistinguishable Church were
> identified and promulgated by the apostles.
Acts 15 is one of the most grossly misunderstood passages in Scripture. My teaching on the subject can be found at:
http://beit-tefillah.com/resources/acts15.html
> You might wish to read Judaism is not Jewish: A friendly
> critique of the Messianic Movement by Baruch Maoz. It’s a
> fascinating book.
I’ll add it to my massive list of things I need to read.
Which "Church" observes these commandments ?