Some replies:
>> 1) We do not keep Torah “to please God” in the way you
>> seem to mean. We keep it because we believe that is the
>> way He calls His Redeemed People — Jewish and non-Jewish
>> — to live. In fact, I am writing a book on this subject
>> that I plan to self-publish in the next month or so.
>
> There is much written in the New Testament about the
> ending of the old covenant commandments that were
> specifically tied to Israel in the land and used to
> separated Israel culturally from the surrounding nations.
> Such laws serve no purpose under the term of the new
> covenant made in the blood of Christ for a catholic
> (universal) people of God. “There is neither Jew nor
> Greek” in the sight of God.
While I agree there is neither Jew nor Gentile in God’s eyes, it is a misinterpretation to assume this means we should all become pagan in our way of life, which is how the Church has interpreted that statement. Romans 11 makes it clear that you are grafted into Israel by faith in Messiah. The major identifying characteristic of being of Israel is Torah.
As for the new covenant, there is only one place in Scripture that gives us the criteria for how we are to judge living under the new covenant — Jeremiah 31 — and it’s plain we are not there yet. Our faith has reserved our spot under the new covenant, but it is clear we’re not living in that age yet.
> We see that primarily in Galatians and Hebrews.
Which have been GROSSLY misinterpreted by the Church.
> I realize many messiancs have reinterpreted much of the NT
> to account for their traditions (and the traditions of
> apostate rabbis being incorporated into the Church), but
> the Church for 2000 years has understood the ending of the
> old covenant is a very different way.
Not 2000 years; more like 1700 years.
>> 2) “Fulfillment” of Commandments — by Yeshua (Jesus) or
>> anyone else does not nullify them. Such an argument has
>> no basis in Scripture.
>
> So, you still sacrifice animals on Passover and spread
> their blood on the door of your home as part of your
> “Torah” observances?
No. First off, the spreading of the blood was done once, on the first Passover. Secondly, the sacrifices (animal and other) are specifically commanded to be done at the Temple or Tabernacle and, without one extant, we are FORBIDDEN from keeping those commandments by the commandments themselves!
>> 3) The idea of comparing Messianics to people who believe
>> Mohammed is the Second Coming is ludicrous.
>
> That was not my issue.
I know, I was replying to one of your other responders.
>> All of Yeshua’s original followers — indeed, most of His
>> followers until the year 200 or later — Believed Him and
>> kept Torah... in other words, they are what we are today.
>
> That is a highly debatable claim,
Not if you read Scripture. It plainly shows that all the Believers were “zealous for the Torah.”
> and one that is contradicted specifically by the decision
> of the Church in Acts 15 where the rules for an
> integrated, racially indistinguishable Church were
> identified and promulgated by the apostles.
Acts 15 is one of the most grossly misunderstood passages in Scripture. My teaching on the subject can be found at:
http://beit-tefillah.com/resources/acts15.html
> You might wish to read Judaism is not Jewish: A friendly
> critique of the Messianic Movement by Baruch Maoz. It’s a
> fascinating book.
I’ll add it to my massive list of things I need to read.
Unfortunately, Messianic Judaism is characterized by historical and theological revisionism. This makes discussion on the topic very difficult for theological conservatives like myself who respect the Church fathers for their insight into the Word of God.
It is difficult to adopt the “restorationist” views of the messianics without throwing out 2000 years of God’s work among His people.
this means we should all become pagan in our way of life, which is how the Church has interpreted that statement.
This may be your personal view, but it also seems to be common among messiancs and perhaps indicates the basic failure of messianic theology. No one in the church ever advocates “becoming pagan”. And you seem to fundamentally view everything not Jewish as pagan.
That was not the view of Paul and the apostles who saw the Church as distinct from both Jews and gentiles (pagans?). It was neither Jewish in nature nor pagan in nature. And so you are confused by referring to what the apostles advocated as “pagan”.
without one extant, we are FORBIDDEN from keeping those commandments by the commandments themselves!
So by your own admission to you have radically changed, indeed nullified, the law of God regarding the feast days to be more inline with traditions of apostate rabbis who needed to alter their traditions following God’s destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in AD70.
Assuming you are like most messianics, you observe an ersatz Passover, not the Passover of the Bible. And therefore you cannot see that you have done to the law precisely what you condemn others for doing, nullifying the commandment to suit your situation.