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To: topcat54

As a Messianic Rabbi, let me clear up a few things:

1) We do not keep Torah “to please God” in the way you seem to mean. We keep it because we believe that is the way He calls His Redeemed People — Jewish and non-Jewish — to live. In fact, I am writing a book on this subject that I plan to self-publish in the next month or so.

2) “Fulfillment” of Commandments — by Yeshua (Jesus) or anyone else does not nullify them. Such an argument has no basis in Scripture.

3) The idea of comparing Messianics to people who believe Mohammed is the Second Coming is ludicrous. All of Yeshua’s original followers — indeed, most of His followers until the year 200 or later — Believed Him and kept Torah... in other words, they are what we are today.

For more on what true Messianic Judaism is — and is not — check out the “About Us” page of my congregation’s website at http://beit-tefillah.com/about/index .


13 posted on 07/24/2007 9:28:36 PM PDT by RadicalRabbi
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To: RadicalRabbi
As a Messianic Rabbi, let me clear up a few things:

Look forward to it.

1) We do not keep Torah “to please God” in the way you seem to mean. We keep it because we believe that is the way He calls His Redeemed People — Jewish and non-Jewish — to live. In fact, I am writing a book on this subject that I plan to self-publish in the next month or so.

There is much written in the New Testament about the ending of the old covenant commandments that were specifically tied to Israel in the land and used to separated Israel culturally from the surrounding nations. Such laws serve no purpose under the term of the new covenant made in the blood of Christ for a catholic (universal) people of God. “There is neither Jew nor Greek” in the sight of God.

We see that primarily in Galatians and Hebrews.

I realize many messiancs have reinterpreted much of the NT to account for their traditions (and the traditions of apostate rabbis being incorporated into the Church), but the Church for 2000 years has understood the ending of the old covenant is a very different way.

2) “Fulfillment” of Commandments — by Yeshua (Jesus) or anyone else does not nullify them. Such an argument has no basis in Scripture.

So, you still sacrifice animals on Passover and spread their blood on the door of your home as part of your “Torah” observances?

3) The idea of comparing Messianics to people who believe Mohammed is the Second Coming is ludicrous.

That was not my issue.

All of Yeshua’s original followers — indeed, most of His followers until the year 200 or later — Believed Him and kept Torah... in other words, they are what we are today.

That is a highly debatable claim, and one that is contradicted specifically by the decision of the Church in Acts 15 where the rules for an integrated, racially indistinguishable Church were identified and promulgated by the apostles.

For more on what true Messianic Judaism is — and is not — check out the “About Us” page of my congregation’s website at http://beit-tefillah.com/about/index .

You might wish to read Judaism is not Jewish: A friendly critique of the Messianic Movement by Baruch Maoz. It’s a fascinating book.

14 posted on 07/25/2007 6:28:22 AM PDT by topcat54 ("... knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." (James 1:3))
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To: RadicalRabbi
On the original blog, Phil Johnson commented:
See the book of Hebrews, Galatians 1-4, and Colossians 2. As Kreloff pointed out, the law contained imagery and foreshadowings of Christ, but now that He has come and fulfilled that which the sacrifices and ceremonies only pictured, to emphasize those things betrays a lack of faith in the true Great High Priest and Once-for-All Atonement.

People in the OT were indeed justified by faith (Gen. 15; Romans 4; Galatians 3). But even in the OT, if someone regarded the law as a means of gaining merit with God, that reflected a lack of authentic faith.

That's even more true today when someone shows an undue obsession with the (already fulfilled and now abrogated) ceremonial and figurative aspects of the OT law--which is what much of Messianic Judaism is all about.


15 posted on 07/25/2007 8:07:17 AM PDT by topcat54 ("... knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." (James 1:3))
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To: RadicalRabbi
For more on what true Messianic Judaism is — and is not

Whatever you are, it's not Jewish. Once you accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah, that is no longer Judaism.

20 posted on 07/25/2007 8:30:16 AM PDT by NYC GOP Chick
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To: RadicalRabbi

You cannot be both Christian and Jewish any more than you can be both Christian and Muslim, or both Catholic and Protestant.

Messianic Christians are just Evangelical Christians who have found another way to proselytize and convert Jews to Christianity.

You can call yourselves Jews but you are not, you are Evangelical Christians and probably the only people in the world who take on the beliefs of another religion yet deny that they are members of that religion.

You are not a Rabbi, you are a Priest.


25 posted on 07/25/2007 7:50:42 PM PDT by Lirona
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