Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe

Jerusalem Post (originally) ^ | November 20, 2002 | Judy Siegel

[Asher]

Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe

By Judy Siegel

JERUSALEM (November 20) - Genetic evidence continues to provide additional proof to the claims that the Jewish people are descended from a common ancient Israelite father: Despite being separated for over 1,000 years, Sephardi Jews of North African origin are genetically indistinguishable from their brethren from Iraq, according to The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

They also proved that Sephardi Jews are very close genetically to the Jews of Kurdistan, and only slight differences exist between these two groups and Ashkenazi Jews from Europe.

These conclusions are reached in an article published recently in the American Journal of Human Genetics and written by Prof. Ariella Oppenheim of the Hebrew University (HU) and Hadassah-University Hospital in Ein Kerem.

Others involved are German doctoral student Almut Nebel, Dr. Marina Faerman of HU, Dr. Dvora Filon of Hadassah-University Hospital, and other colleagues from Germany and India.

The researchers conducted blood tests of Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Kurdish Jews and examined their Y chromosomes, which are carried only by males. They then compared them with those of various Arab groups - Palestinians, Beduins, Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese - as well as to non-Arab populations from Transcaucasia - Turks, Armenians and Moslem Kurds.

The study is based on 526 Y chromosomes typed by the Israeli team and additional data on 1,321 individuals from 12 populations. The typing of the Jewish groups was performed at the National Genome Center at HU's Silberman Institute of Life Sciences.

The Fertile Crescent of the Middle East was one of the few centers in which the transition from hunting-gathering to permanent settlement and agriculture took place. Genetic studies suggest that migrating Neolithic farmers dispersed their technological innovations and domesticated animals from the Middle East towards Europe, North Africa and Southwest Asia.

Studies of Y chromosomes have become powerful tools for the investigation of the genetic history of males, since these chromosomes are transmitted from fathers to sons.

Surprisingly, the study shows a closer genetic affinity by Jews to the non-Jewish, non-Arab populations in the northern part of the Middle East than to Arabs. These findings are consistent with known cultural links that existed among populations in the Fertile Crescent in early history, and indicate that the Jews are direct descendants of the early Middle Eastern core populations, which later divided into distinct ethnic groups speaking different languages.

Previous investigations by the HU researchers suggested a common origin for Jewish and non-Jewish populations living in the Middle East. The current study refines and delineates that connection.

It is believed that the majority of today's Jews - not including converts and non-Jews with whom Jews intermarried - descended from the ancient Israelis that lived in the historic Land of Israel until the destruction of the Second Temple and their dispersal into the Diaspora.

The researchers say that a genetic analysis of the chromosomes of Jews from various countries show that there was practically no genetic intermixing between them and the host populations among which they were scattered during their dispersion - whether in Eastern Europe, Spain, Portugal or North Africa.

A particularly intriguing case illustrating this is that of the Kurdish Jews, said to be the descendants of the Ten Tribes of Israel who were exiled in 723 BCE. to the area known today as Kurdistan, located in Northern Iraq, Iran and Eastern Turkey. They continued to live there as a separate entity until their immigration to Israel in the 1950s. The Kurdish Jews of today show a much greater affinity to their fellow Jews elsewhere than to the Kurdish Moslems.

(Source: The Jerusalem Post Newspaper)

[nmh]

"If you need proof for the existence of Abraham, its all in the genes."

Indeed. As knowledge increases through DNA etc.. what "is written" is validated. Yet people will still believe they are decendents of apes. The Judeo Christian God in whose image we are created is no ape.

[billbears]

And besides when the New Testament came about the old covenant was turned null and void.

Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I tend to take decrees from God Almighty as law. And considering His Son backs it up, that pretty much wraps it for me

[nmh]

"Do you also love it when science disproves the Bible? Science is a two edged sword."

Oh silly one ... it is man that is the author of confusion and pride to a fatel flaw. Objective science validates the Bible. Science only helps to determine Biblical truth.

[DensaMensa]

}we have a double talk book (although not the exact one referenced) saying that Jews aren't really Jews. Imagine that!!

EIGHTH COMMANDMENT:
Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

We should fear and love God so that we do not deceitfully belie, betray, backbite, nor slander our neighbor, but apologize for him, speak well of him, and put the most charitable construction on all that does.

---From The Junior Confirmation Book, Augsburg Publishing House, 1943.

[billbears]

EIGHTH COMMANDMENT: Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor

I know this is going to come as a struggle to you, but it's not false witness if they said it!!!

I am repeating what was said and inferred by the poster. Now if I were to make up a lie and said the poster commented that the Jewish people were God's Chosen People, that would be bearing false witness. It would also be the truth, but it would be bearing false witness against the poster

[Destro]

The key phrase till all be fulfilled

Jesus died and was resurrected. Mission accomplished.

On to a new covenant.

If not, then what was St. Peter doing telling us not to keep Kosher or get circumcised?

[billbears]

Slander--1. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

Now let's see if what I said fit the definition shall we? First, the poster had a known habit of making said statements that the Jewish people were not the same Jewish people of the Old Testament. Second, the poster provided a source that states this hypothesis as a fact in one of their links found Here

You can play all the word games you want, you can call it slander, but by definition it is not slander. The poster in question provided links that 'prove' their point.

So again, you haven't answered the question (which I doubt you ever will)

A) Are the Jewish people today in Israel the same Jewish people of the old Testament (God's Chosen People) AND B) if they are do they have a right to the land and a homeland that they feel is the land God gave to them?

[Destro]

Really? Sceince proves evolution.

[billbears]

Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Maybe I missed it, I am slow to notice things sometimes, but have heaven and earth passed? Thought not

[Destro]

Teh Old Testament needs to be studied to understand the new but it is not required. The New Testament is a break from the Old Testament.

[Destro]

Yea you did miss it. Piss poor translation of the Greek original too.

[billbears]

Of course we have another interesting dialogue here in the New Testament

Matthew 15
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Now if these 10 lost tribes had moved off to whereever and Jewish people after 722 BC weren't the Chosen People of God, why was Jesus Christ travelling through this area for the House of Israel?

[Destro]

An English version closer to the original Greek:

Matthew 5
18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

The Law will be the same until the mission is accomplished-That mission? The death of the Son of God as wages for the world's sins and then his resurrection. Now that everything is accomplished the law can disappear.

[Destro]

All 12 tribes were the the tribes of Isreal-including the ones remaining.

[DouglasKC]

Adherents believe present day Anglo-Saxon people are direct descendants of the ancient Israelites, and have thus inherited all God's promises to Abraham and his descendants. The movement consists of a number of groups, most of which promote hate by considering whites to be the superior race (''white supremacy'').
Examples: Aryan Nations, National Alliance, and some patriot / militia groups. Identity followers believe that white Anglo-Saxons - not Jews - are the real Biblical ''Chosen People;'' that Jews are descendants of a sexual union between Eve and Satan; that the white race is superior to others, and that Blacks and other nonwhite races are ''mud people'' on the same level as animals, and therefore have no souls.

I wanted to inform you that this is totally false when applied to United Church of God. The church doesn't teach, tolerate or even remotely identify with any of these and other claims made in that post and linking United to them is a gross error on your part.

United's views are expressed in this booklet

If you read it you'll see that in no way does it reflect the attitudes or ideas in your post.

Thanks in advance for your consideration.

[Quix]

Your lines sound like lines the Sadusees or Pharisees of Jesus' dusty pathed days could have easily written.

Interesting.

I think I'll vote with Jesus every time compared to:

--TRADITIONALISTS
--PONTIFICATING RELIGIOUS EXPERTS PUFFED UP OVER THEIR OWN KNOWLEDGE AND HISTORY
--THOSE ADDICTED TO FORM OVER SUBSTANCE
--THOSE MORE ADDICTED TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW THAN THE SPIRIT

. . . THE LIST could go on and on and ever on.

[Destro]

You might enjoy this post: Author Frank Schaeffer to speak on his Orthodox faith

[Quix]

tHANKS.

I probably won't get to it before tomorrow.

I love the Shaeffer's works generally. I don't hold to all their convictions and positions!

Blessings,

[Spirited]

Try the extensive teaching of Dr. Gene Scott on the subject, a few of which are online at:
http://www.drgenescott.org/thearchives.htm
Click on "subject"
Click on "Lost Tribes".

I suspect that in the various online archived tapes you will find more than enough linguistic, historical and archeological confirmations to give you a challenge.

If Ezekiel 37:16-22 is ever to come to pass where Messiah binds the "two sticks" together; one Judah and the other Joseph; in order to make them AGAIN one nation under the throne of David, you are going to have to get the 10 tribed Kingdom of Israel(also called Joseph or Ephraim at the time) out of where ever Yah has scattered them. They were not of Judah then and they cannot be now. The split is recorded in I KIngs 12 and verse 15 carefully tells us "for the cause was from the LORD, that he might perform his saying, which the LORD spake by Ahijah the Shilonite unto Jeroboam the son of Nebat". Verse 24 reiterates it "for this thing (separation into two nations) is from me" That is how you got the nations each of which is actually called by a few names--Judah (2 tribes) can be called House of Judah, Kingdom of Judah, House of David etc.and were later nicknamed Jews. The (10 tribed) Kingdom of Israel was variously called House of Israel, Joseph, Ephraim etc.

Genesis 48:16 records Jacob/Israel giving the sons of Joseph his name--the name the angel pronounced upon him, ISRAEL. ("16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.")

While the 12 tribes were together they were the "whole house of Israel"--the 12 (actually 13 when Levi is included) were the sons of Israel, their father. But when they were separated, since the 10 tribed Kingdom was led by Ephraim--and Manassseh(the two sons of Joseph adopted by Jacob/Israel) the legal name which their father pronounced as theirs was used as their Kingdom name--Israel.

The birthright also was divided by Jacob/Israel. Judah received the sceptre (the right to rule (kingly line) and to make the laws). Gen.49:10

The rest of the entire birthright was given , however, to
the sons of Joseph whose legal name was Israel. (IChronicles 5:1-2) "2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but THE BIRTHRIGHT was Joseph's:"

This was not a whim on the part of Jacob/Israel. The birthright was to go to the first son but as explained here the 1st son, Rueben, made himself ineligible. Therefore it had to go to the first son of the second wife, Rachel. That was Joseph.

This is serious business. G_d is not promiscuous with His promises nor with their fulfillment.
One doesn't usurp a birthright or transfer it, either. If the birthright was going to a people (as numerous as the sand in the sea or stars in the sky or "great multitude in the midst of the earth" Gen.48:16 above) whom He would "lose" because His omniscience or omnipotence would fail then we are serving no G-d at all.

G_d is faithful to His Word. Study His promise to David in Psalm 89:27-37. As long as there was a sun which rose and a moon as well there would be a King (descendant of David) on a throne/thrones somewhere on earth. Then go to Burke's Peerage or to any official genealogical lineage of the throne of England and read.

[Destro]

God is a job description not a name. You can write G-O-D and not burn in hellfire.