Posted on 09/10/2019 6:42:58 AM PDT by Enlightened1
I’m an old guy with a “slight” (matter of opinion) Beer Belly.
I always wear my shirts untucked, except at Weddings and Funerals.
” I would always conceal so as not to upset anyone.”
Don’t ever speak your mind in public because that might upset someone.
Your position advocates and incremental approach to the finality of a total gun ban.
i.e. this is really not about gun rights at all. It’s about property rights. “guns” just happens to be the way this particular person is violating a private property owner’s rights.
And if you want to carry a gun on someone’s property, just conceal carry. If they don’t want you to even do that, well, once they see the gun, they can ask you to leave. Their rule does not carry the force of law. The law would only be involved if, after being asked to leave, you refuse. And at that point it is no longer about the gun. It is about trespassing - a completely different issue.
This is all very simple, because it is all binary.
What mucks it up is this: To carry my thinking to it’s logical conclusion, it means that I could own a store and refuse to allow people of one race or another on my property, or I could have a gym that is “women only”.
And I could, according to the constitution. And if it was offensive to the local culture, I’d go out of business.
Remember, what made Jim Crow bad was that it was not private property owners deciding to segregate racially. It was THE LAW. It was the government requiring it - even if the business owner did not want to segregate.
This country was established on the rights of the individual, and that foundation was built on a deeper foundation of individual property rights.
Does Walmart still sell Cigarettes, another non PC Legal Product?
> sounds like you’re ok with that <
Don’t kill the messenger. I’m just saying what the law allows you to do. You can legally discriminate against redheads or carpenters or chess masters. It would be silly, but you could do it.
You just cannot discriminate against a federal (or state) protected class. None of those folks I mentioned above are in a protected class.
So yeah, a boss could call in an employee and say, “I just found out that you are a chess master. So you’re fired!” That would be dumb to the nth degree. But the boss could legally do it.
I work at Walmart in a small town in NC. The joke is NOT ONE regular associate on the floor has ever seen this “BANNED” list. We have many people that have been “banned” that come in regularly. Usually it is about stealing. I am a Self Check Out Host and am in the first line of fire so to speak. I have asked about this banned list and why can we not see it. Not our business. I have no problem with open carry and we have it down here. Now everyone just conceal carrys and life goes on. Even associates have said they feel better knowing there are people in the store that might be able to shoot back at an armed intruder.
In truth, I’ve heard all of the wrong-thinking around open carry. I invite anyone in the thread to provide a real world example of people being specifically targeted because they were open carrying.
It doesn’t work that way. Reality dictates that the predator will select those they perceive to be weak and unprepared. Once you’re selected as a target, there’s no surprise to be had.
Produce your data.
That must be why every cop on Earth carries concealed...
So now we're justifying corporate abuse in support of thwarting our Constitutional rights, based on hypothetical scenarios.
Clearly using that logic Wal-Mart could just implement "hysteria-free zones" in their stores or post "No Hysteria Allowed" signs at their entrances. Problem solved!
For you, I’ll explain what I’m saying.
You’re walking down a City street at night with your wife/girlfriend/so; around the corner comes two gang aged Utes, talking among themselves... Do you draw from concealment, breaking the law in that case by drawing down on a couple of kids on their way to church? Or do you wait for the first sign of aggression, when one of them, from two steps away, places a knife to your date’s throat?
Do you attempt to draw your weapon now?
Of course you don’t.
They lift your wallet, your concealed weapon, and your date’s jewelry and have a great laugh about you bringing a gun to a knife fight.
Otherwise, you open carry, place your hand on the butt of your gun, and allow them to pass in peace, neither having been mugged, not committing assault.
It’s been a while since I looked it up, but in Florida, the mere presence of a posted “no guns allowed” or “gun free zone” sign by itself is “unenforceable”. Open carry isn’t allowed in Florida with a couple of exceptions that don’t apply to this issue.
Anyway, in the book “Florida Firearms - Law, Use and Ownership” by Jon Gutmacher (and I don’t pretend to represent his views or proffer his advice, he is also an attorney), he gives some pretty sound information. Florida’s laws specifically list the places where guns are prohibited... there used to be thirteen of them. Gutmacher pretty much said that the sign is unenforceable as a matter of law, however, the business proprietor, if he discovers that you have a gun, concealed or otherwise on your person and have decided to ignore his/her sign, may ask you to leave the premises. At that point, Gutmacher pretty much recommends that you not even so much as exhale forcefully in the direction of said proprietor or blink or roll your eyes, just leave the premises as quickly as possible. To do otherwise is to invite the police to come and haul you away for “aggravated trespassing” or some such nonsense.
If you’re capable of concealing your weapon so that there’s no issue, then you’re okay. Just conceal it and keep your mouth shut.
I highly recommend Gutmacher’s book to anyone who carries in Florida... it is a most excellent reference source.
Depends largely on what kind of rig you use. Personally, I prefer CC myself, but have no problem with open carry.
I don’t carry my phone on one of those belt clips either.
Why the heck not? They are fabulously fashionable! LOL
I suppose you also believe that no one can see you if you cover your eyes.
Yeah, ok, wiseguy.
How old are you, twelve?
Please explain how concealed carry violates your 2A rights.
The way I see it, is you can choose to simply & quietly *exercise* your 2nd Amendment right to be prepared for self defense in ANY *hypothetical scenario* by carrying your weapon discreetly— concealed.
(Funny you’d be so snarky about *hypotheticals*— isn’t any scenario hypothetical until it happens? And isn’t that why you’d carry at all?
By carrying concealed, the *particular* hypotheticals I mention WOULD NOT HAPPEN AT ALL. Open carry virtually guarantees that it COULD.)
But, hey, do it your way.
Insist on essentially hanging a sign around your neck announcing what a hotshot macho guy you are, while daring the eeeevil “corporate abusers” (who are simply trying to run a business safely & efficiently without unnecessary incidents & without violating anyone’s rights) to challenge you, as well as actually inviting the “hypothetical” (actually quite plausible) scenarios I mention) to present themselves— so you can argue and maybe even get an opportunity to escalate the argument into a shooting situation.
Because that would certainly prove what a macho guy you are.
The way I see it, people with common sense quietly PREPARE OURSELVES for any *scenario* that could arise, but *quietly* go about our business without drawing attention to ourselves.
We don’t waste time arguing with idiots.
I suppose you also believe that no one can see you if you cover your eyes.
My eyes are closed. Can you see me?
I rest my case. :D
Amen and well said!
“...shall not be infringed.”
From the above: ‘And James Madison, the principal author of the Constitution, echoed those thoughts when he wrote, “as a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights.”’
So I have a property in my right to keep and bear arms.
Also from the above: ‘In particular, the term “private property” should be defined to include all the uses that can be made of property consistent with the common law rights of others.’
Others have the common law right to keep and bear arms.
“On your property, your rights trump the rights of others on your property, assuming you are not violating their rights by forcing them to be on your property.”
One’s property rights do not trump the free speech right of another to say “No” or “Stop” to a sexual advance. The other may be forced to leave the property for exercising that free speech right, but it is not trumped.
“And I didn’t mention Conceal Carry. A business also has the right to say nobody can carry a concealed gun, or wear blue underwear, on their property. However, those two are harder to find.”
That implies that you are willing to violate a private property owners rights as long as the property owner doesn’t know about it.
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