Tycho's Supernova
Posted on 08/19/2009 7:20:29 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
Scientists have peered further back in time than ever before using instruments designed to search for a phenomenon predicted by Albert Einstein almost a century ago but not yet proven to exist.
An American observatory hunting for ripples in space and time called gravitational waves has produced its most significant results yet, despite not having directly detected any.
Tycho's Supernova
The “non-discovery” offers insights into the state of the Universe just 60 seconds into its existence. Previous research has been unable to look back in time further than about 380,000 years after the big bang.
The new window on the dawn of time has been opened by the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO), a network of three detectors that have been seeking evidence of gravitational waves since 2005.
These waves, which are believed to stretch and squeeze space and time as they pass, were predicted by Einstein in his theory of relativity. Violent events, such as a supernova explosion or the collision of two black holes, should make the biggest and most detectable waves. While their existence is accepted by astrophysicists, they have never been directly detected. LIGO has not yet found any gravitational waves either, and this has important implications for astrophysics and cosmology.
Certain theoretical models of what happened in the first moments of the cosmos predict that gravitational waves should be visible in LIGO’s data. As none have been detected, the “non-findings” narrow down possible explanations for the growth of the Universe.
The research, which is published in the journal Nature , also offers proof that gravitational-wave observatories will open up new horizons for astronomy, allowing scientists to examine aspects of the cosmos that have previously been hidden from view, such as supernovas and black holes. The first 380,000 years after the big
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
Must be how the RATS are justifying health care...
and global warming.
Ok, I am a moron.
How in the hell do they peer back in time???
Totally amazed at our knowledge and abilities. Still no cure for cancer.
See the sun in the sky? You’re seeing it how it was 8 minutes ago. Now extrapolate that out to something like the Hubble, peering into the far reaches of the universe...
THIS could be the forum to discuss the logical proof for God’s existence!
386,000 per/sec.
You are right on. If you reverse the situation, a being on another planet could be pointing one of these at the earth and just now be seeing the time of Christ walking the earth or Moses, or even further back to the birth of Joan Rivers.
386,000 miles/per/sec!!!
When you look at a star in the sky you may be “seeing” what that star looked like millions of years ago if that star happens to be millions of light-years from earth. Similarly, these scientists are “looking” in areas of the sky (the universe) thought to be furthest from earth. Theat’s how they “peer back in time”.
What I’ve always wondered is, if scientists could “peer back in time” to one nanosecond into the existence of the universe and discovered a mirrored surface which was perfectly aligned toward the scientists, what would that mirror be reflecting?
Nope. Approximately 186,000 miles/second in a vacuum.
I’m sorry you are right 186,000 per/sec :(
The big bang idea is bad physics and bad theology rolled into a package.
Aha... Now we can work on star drive technology to surf the grav waves.
Kowabunga dude.
I SEE YOU..
Or about 300,000 kilometers/second.
Or, generally more usefully, about 3X10^8 meters/second. ;-)
Probably the most famous non-discovery in modern science was the Michelson Morley experiment, which was supposed to detect the presence of the "ether." They discovered nothing.... and from that finding, Einstein formulated his theory of Special Relativity.
Where they might see Helen Thomas changing her diaper.
“the logical proof for God’s existence!”
I wish I could be confident that you are right, but my knowledge of most of these atronomer/physicist types is that about 999 out of 1000 of them are anti-God heathens.
IMHO they are more likely attempting to prove the NON-existence of God. They will eventually be proven fools, but it may not be until they appear at the Great White Throne Judgement.
That's going to be difficult if there are none.
Well-l-l-l-l-l, since we needed something to explain the lack of mass to maintain galaxy shape (Dark matter) and we needed something to explain the accelerated expansion of the universe (Dark Energy), all we need now to explain the lack of gravitational waves is Dark Ripples. (/Sarcasm)
Well, considering the reflected light would take just as long to return, you probably wouldn't see it if it were at that point. The light reflected from us would have to reach the mirror, then reflect back, doubling the time frame of the distance you are looking at. One of those fun space-time things to contemplate but only a few in the world can calculate (I wouldn't even pretend to try..)
Actually, 300,000 km/sec.
Not at all. The Big Bang theory doesn't attempt to explain why the bang occurred, only that it did occur.
When Lemaître, riffing off early work by Einstein postulated what came to be known as the Big Bang, he makes no attempts - and neither does anyone else that I'm aware - to speculate or hypothesis what (or who) may have been the impetus for the bang.
All I want to know is, when do we get JetPacks?!!
Nope. I can prove God’s existence myself. I will discuss it on these pages in the morning. TTYL.
In just a few short months, you too can own your own JetPack...
Kiwi inventor launches 'world's first practical jetpack'
“The “non-discovery” offers insights into the state of the Universe just 60 seconds into its existence.”
And what do they see? I’ll bet they see an empty and formless earth just like the Bible says.
Ping.
Here is a thought.
An observation is only as good as the instrument used and the perspective/vantage-point at the point of observation.
One could have a very tiny, microscopic vantage point and a very narrow idea of what to look for and how to look for it, and with the best instrument designed around those limits produce a ton of “data” which, in the end, may prove, in a sort of circular logic - nothing more than that our observation instruments work because they obtain what we designed them to obtain, from our limitations of knowledge and perspective/vantage point and using the huge theories we have built with those limitations.
I truly believe that whenever we are finally “star travelers” that many of our theories and assumptions about the universe, its age, how creation continues and many other things will be blown away by knowledge gained in getting to the stars and what we actually find there.
Much of astronomical science has less hard first hand facts and more theory than even the man-made global warming hoax.
Pinglist Ping
“THIS could be the forum to discuss the logical proof for God’s existence!.”
Nah, you’re trying to come up with some sort of unified theory to rationalize the natural and supernatural aspects of the universe. Einstein tried to develop a unified theory of just the natural universe, and was unsuccessful (and he was smart). What chance do you think you have?
Just show us the certificate.
yitbos
Here is a thought.
An observation is only as good as the instrument used and the perspective/vantage-point at the point of observation.
One could have a very tiny, microscopic vantage point and a very narrow idea of what to look for and how to look for it, and with the best instrument designed around those limits produce a ton of “data” which, in the end, may prove, in a sort of circular logic - nothing more than that our observation instruments work because they obtain what we designed them to obtain, from our limitations of knowledge and perspective/vantage point and using the huge theories we have built with those limitations.
I truly believe that whenever we are finally “star travelers” that many of our theories and assumptions about the universe, its age, how creation continues and many other things will be blown away by knowledge gained in getting to the stars and what we actually find there.
Much of astronomical science has less hard first hand facts and more theory than even the man-made global warming hoax.
I believe that ideas like “ripples in space-time” are due precisely to the limitations of such a microscopic perspective of our tiny vantage point and our limited real knowledge. I think it is more about how things we don’t fully understand appear to us, than how they actually are.
” ... other things, like gravity waves, travel a lot slower than the speed of light!”
Actually, gravity waves are today theorized to be associated to the propagation of massless elementary particles called gravitons. According to quantum field theory, all massless elementary particles, including the photon and graviton, propagate (in vacuum) at the same speed, about 3 times 10^8 meters per second. This is called the speed of light, although it is the (vacuum) propagation speed of any massless elementary particle, not just the photon. Through the wave-particle duality of quantum mechanics, this means that, in turn, the associated waves (electromagnetic waves in the case of the photon, and gravitational waves in the case of the graviton) also travel at the same speed, the speed of light.
(Although photons and gravitons are both massless and propagate at the same speed, there are important differences between them, the most significant being that photons are what are called spin-1 particles and gravitons are spin-2 particles, which turns out to ultimately provide the basis for why photons mediate electromagnetic interactions and gravitons mediate gravitational interactions.)
They just didn’t find the ether. Its there.
parsy, who just knows it.
pinging my favorite cosmologists...
I think I pinged y’all to a thread on the LIGO a while back.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2266921/posts?page=78
One of the testable predictions of Hatch’s theory is that LIGO, the Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory, will fail to detect gravity waves. As of July 2007, this prediction stands.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2270920/posts
To: Alamo-Girl
Thanks, AG.
From what I can gather about this scientific controversy, one of the approaches that was supposed to settle it was the Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory being used as a gravity wave detector. Has it found gravity waves? If not, would that indicate an upper bound of how energetic they would be?
Gravity wave detector all set
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2003/denver_2003/2774163.stm
The Suppression of Inconvenient Facts in Physics http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2266921/posts
Hatch’s proposed alternative to special and general relativity theory, Modified Lorentz Aether Gauge Theory (MLET), agrees with General Relativity at first order but corrects many astronomical anomalies that GRT cannot account for without ad-hoc assumptions, such as the anomalous rotation of galaxies and certain anomalies in planetary orbits. In addition, the force of gravity is self-limiting in MLET, which eliminates point singularities (black holes), one of the major shortcomings of GRT. One of the testable predictions of Hatch’s theory is that LIGO, the Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory, will fail to detect gravity waves. As of July 2007, this prediction stands. (30)
http://www2b.abc.net.au/science/k2/stn/archives/archive51/newposts/347/topic347102.shtm
21 posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 12:28:05 AM by Kevmo (So America gets what America deserves - the destruction of its Constitution. ~Leo Donofrio, 6/1/09)
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“IMHO they are more likely attempting to prove the NON-existence of God.”
Hmmm. As one who taught a year of Physics recitation (and rubbed shoulders with said scientists), I would say that you’re exhibiting a bit of religious paranoia. It ain’t like that in the Physics world. Physicist aren’t into the supernatural, and certainly don’t try to disprove the existence of God.
IMHO, more contemporary religious leaders attempt to disprove existence of God than scientists. I could go into the various sects that don’t believe in God’s existence, as weird as that may seem, but if you’re any sort of expert, you know exactly what I’m talking about. This ain’t the place to do it though. Suffice to say that scientists are busy enough just dealing with the physical world, vs. the supernatural where physical laws don’t apply.
No problem, we’ll simply fire up the Infinite Improbability Drive!
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Improbability_Drive)
Thanks for the ping, dear Kevmo!
I thought it was "Happy Fun Ball".
That's why astrophysics is called a theoretical science. But, those theories frequently prove to be accurate.
When Einstein postulated the phenomenon of time dilation in his Theory of Relativity in 1905, it wasn't proven to be accurate until 1971 - some 66 years later. Einstein's ability to conceptualize the mathematical structure of the universe was far superior to the contemporary ability to create experiments to either prove or disprove those mathematical theories.
That's the purpose of theoretical science, to break away from the tethers or contemporary limitations of other physical sciences to explain the unknown.
parsy, who just knows it.
You know, I was concerned the other day when I saw you make a post that didn't have your signature "parsy" quip...
Parsy, who I suspect samples the "ether" from time to time. :-)
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