Florida Group Proposes Confederate Flag License Plate

wftv ^ | August 18, 2006

[usmcobra]

This Florida plate is a really great idea.

They should issue one to every actual confederate veteran that fought in the war between the states and is still driving in Florida.

[Non-Sequitur]

but WE won!

Whew! Had to do a double-take there, stand watie. I thought for a moment that you were claiming the south won their rebellion.

[vetvetdoug]

I am glad your rebuttal was for the CW response. I thought for a minute you were going to give a rebuttal about MLK's exemplary moral attributes and how he deserves a higher place in US history than does George Washington and Abraham Lincoln!!!

[Heyworth]

Yeah ... okay ... sure and like I believe Lincoln didn't provoke the incident to get war.

This is one I like almost as much as Watie's "you serve the RISEN SOUTH" bit. It's the "Damn that crafty Lincoln, tricking us into opening fire on Ft. Sumter" bit. Sure makes your guys look dumb, though.

[Heyworth]

I thought for a moment that you were claiming the south won their rebellion.

If you're a Lost Causer, you've got to take your victories where you can, pretty much by definition. Even if it means getting into bed with a white supremacist scumbag like Kirk Lyons.

[Non-Sequitur]

I thought for a minute you were going to give a rebuttal about MLK's exemplary moral attributes and how he deserves a higher place in US history than does George Washington and Abraham Lincoln!!!

Never really thought about him other than a paid holiday when I worked for the government or for a bank. But all you southron types have such a down on him he has to have some redeeming features.

[righthand man]

DIXIE PING

I like that tag it has class

[smug]

Funny, there's no mention of northern mercantalist interests in the Declaration of Causes that South Carolina's Secession Convention issued, but lots of talk about slavery.

That don't mean there weren't others. My ex-wife had dozens of complaints about me, but only choose to list one in the divorce papers. And her name was even misspelled. 8^)

[Colt .45]

Well lets look at Saint Lincoln shall we?!

"Constitutional Problems under Lincoln," James G. Randall, 1951, Urbana: University of Illinois Press: "Among the unconstitutional and dictatorial acts performed by Lincoln were initiating and conducting a war by decree for months without the consent or advice of Congress; declaring martial law; confiscating private property; suspending habeas corpus; conscripting the railroads and censoring telegraph lines; imprisoning as many as 30,000 Northern citizens without trial; deporting a member of Congress, Clement L. Vallandigham of Ohio, after Vallandigham - a fierce opponent of the Morrill tariff -- protested imposition of an income tax at a Democratic Party meeting in Ohio; and shutting down hundreds of Northern newspapers."

"Emancipating Slaves, Enslaving Free Men," Jeffrey Rogers Hummel; Laissez Faire Books
"The Lincoln Administration imprisoned at least 14,000 (Northern) civilians throughout the course of the war. ... The federal government simultaneously monitored and censored both the mails and telegraphs. ... It also suppressed newspapers. Over three hundred, including the Chicago Times, the New York World, and the Philadelphia Evening Journal, had to cease publication for varying periods."

The Confederate War, Gary Gallagher, 1998, Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press:
"The Emancipation Proclamation caused a desertion crisis in the United States Army. At least 200,000 Northern soldiers deserted; another 120,000 evaded conscription; and another 90,000 Northern men fled to Canada to evade the draft, while thousands more hid in the mountains of central Pennsylvania 'where they lay beyond the easy reach of enrolling officers.'"

Yet you dirt bags continually try to ram "how evil the South was" down Southern throats. Its really reminiscent of the years leading up to the secession, and its no wonder why most Southerners despise you ignorant Yankees. You are dupes and buffoons who followed a dictator under the guise of "Preserving" something, when the end result would've made the Founders wonder what the h*ll happened to their beloved country. And you have the temerity to call us "dumb"!

You guys remind me of an old proverb - Never try to teach a pig to sing, its a waste of your time and annoys the pig!

[Heyworth]

"Constitutional Problems under Lincoln,"

I can go over to DU right now and find a similar list for George Bush. As the current administration knows, certain threats to the United States require certain measures."The consitution is not a suicide pact" and all that. And every one of the things you list was also undone by the US government.

deporting a member of Congress, Clement L. Vallandigham of Ohio, after Vallandigham - a fierce opponent of the Morrill tariff -- protested imposition of an income tax at a Democratic Party meeting in Ohio;

Nice job of cherry picking one point out of Valladingham's speech and ignoring the rest, like the part about the war being fought to free blacks and enslave whites, about overthrowing "King Lincoln" and about the Republicans intending to never cede power and impose a dictatorship. No, it was the line about income tax that made Burnside toss him in jail.

The Emancipation Proclamation caused a desertion crisis in the United States Army. At least 200,000 Northern soldiers deserted;

Post hoc fallacy. How many confederates deserted at the same time? Did they also quit because of the EP?

Yet you dirt bags continually try to ram "how evil the South was" down Southern throats.

No, I just won't allow you to spout your "The south was right" crap unopposed. You guys were at it on these threads long before I came along.

You are dupes and buffoons who followed a dictator under the guise of "Preserving" something,

So my ancestors,and all the others, who remained loyal to the United States, who fought under the Stars and Stripes, were "dupes and buffoons." Nice. I knew that would come out eventually. Put that one right up with Watie's line last week about freed blacks fighting for the north being turncoats to their southern heritage.

Never try to teach a pig to sing, its a waste of your time and annoys the pig

Funny, I'm always reminded of the same thing, and yet I persist. I figure some passerby might learn a few tunes.

[Heyworth]

That don't mean there weren't others.

Hey, I'll happily concede that sectional tensions had been brewing a long time. But the immediate cause was Lincoln's election and the threat to slave property rights that it was believed he posed.

If your wife only listed one complaint on your divorce papers, I"d feel pretty safe in saying that's the one that was really p***ing her off at the time. But that's just me.

[rustbucket]

Most of what the south seized were unmanned. The exception was Texas, where the commanding general there ordered the troops to turn over facilities without approval of Washington.

Twiggs was taken at the point of a gun to negotiate with the Texas Commissioners. (His capture is reenacted every year, I think.)

He wasn't in a strong negotiating position. Texas troops far outnumbered and surrounded the US force and the War Department had not given him any guidance on what to do if this happened despite his asking (more than once I think). To resist would have begun the WBTS. Sam Houston helped convince Twiggs not to start the war in Texas, IIRC.

Apparently, there was shouting back and forth in the negotiations with the captured Twiggs, but Twiggs managed to get the OK for his troops, some supplies, and their arms (small arms, at least) to go to the coast where they would be shipped north. The transfer of US troops to the north was interrupted after Sumter fell. Those federal troops that were still in Texas at that time became some of the first prisoners of war.

[Non-Sequitur]

You guys remind me of an old proverb - Never try to teach a pig to sing, its a waste of your time and annoys the pig!

And this post reminds me of an old saying, too. Same shit, different day.

[Non-Sequitur]

And the managed to kiss and make up in time for Twiggs to become a confederate general? Come on.

[goldstategop]

I'd buy one when I move to FL... as a way of sticking it to liberals and the Yankees!

(No more Olmert! No more Kadima! No more Oslo!)

[Colonel Kangaroo]

Why did North Carolina and Tennessee secede and when?

I'm not familiar with NC, but Tennessee seceded because Gov. Isham Harris and his slavery-loving gang in the state legislature ignored the expressed will of the people (almost 2 to 1 against even calling a secession convention) and invited the reb army in anyway. The subsequent rubber stamp election was widely regarded as a sham.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

Honest people have disagreed about secession, but even if approval of secession was in the Constitution, it was a criminally stupid act.

As the Declaration of Independence said:

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes..."

The slave interest said since the wrong candidate won we'll quit. Like so many things about the Confederacy it would be funny if so many good men on both sides had not died because of the slaveowners' selfishness.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

(you) continually try to ram "how evil the South was" down Southern throats.

I'm a Southerner. I don't think the South is/was evil. But the Confederacy was an evil slaveowners' regime. The South and the Confederacy is not and never were the same thing.

Unless one was a slaveowner, the defeat of the rebellion was for the best for all Southerners.

If somebody wants to honor their reb soldier ancestor, that's fine with me. The vast majority of those guys were brave and honest-hearted according to the knowledge of the day. But one can honor the brave man who put his life on the line and still recognize the self-centered rottenness of the rebellion of the politicians.

[Caipirabob]

Like it. I wish the Confederate flag wasn't associated with so much hate. Unfortunately too many misguided individuals took to waving it around while promoting idiot causes and have tarnish it. Rehabilitation will be quite a struggle.

My ancestors fought and died for the Confederacy and it is part of my heritage. I'm saddened that the fight was also associated to the cause of perpetuating slavery and it's expansion into Western territories. I'm more akin to believing that my family fought for their homes against an aggressive Northern force that sought to destroy their ability for their state to govern themselves without interference from a meddling Federal government.

But the reality is that the struggle will always be linked to the elitists in the South who wanted to enslave their fellow man and see that tyranny expand into new territory.

My father was raised Southern and always taught us to evaluate people on an equal basis for how they behaved "in our world", not how others judged them. I still had family however that leaned toward openly racist behavior. Today they have either passed on or now have several children married to Latinos, Asians or others. It has to be eye opening for them to see children as dark as mine can get carry family names we've used for over 1,000 years.

I will teach my children about our family and our Southern heritage. They will learn what I stated above and I won't hide anything. It is still a proud heritage and I am proud of it. Heck, my ancestor is the one who relayed the order to fire on Fort Sumter. We're knee deep.

I'd love to argue that all of our reasons for the war were right and just, but that's just not going to happen.

I will argue that it's my family and heritage and I will not forsake it. there were some valid reason for my family to fight. Our homes and our lands were threatened by a hostile for. Our honor was at risk, and we just don't take to people telling us what to do or how to live. That much is still true.

All the while, I will thank God in heaven that slavery was extinguish for the horrid tyranny and evil that it was and still is today. At least some good came out of the conflict.

Anyway, today we are far more enlightened as a people. That flag still represents much goodness and honor that was the South and still is, despite darker associations.

Still, if for no other reason, waving that flag around today would probably drive liberals crazy. If I worry about some parts of the past, this thought alone is enough for me to put the plate on my car.

[Colt .45]

"I can go over to DU right now and find a similar list for George Bush. As the current administration knows, certain threats to the United States require certain measures."The consitution is not a suicide pact" and all that. And every one of the things you list was also undone by the US government."

Bush is merely following what many Presidents have done after Lincoln broke new ground. It seems that a favorite saying amongst you Yankees is the old "well the Constitution doesn't say that he couldn't." But I found that Madison (one of the architects of the Constitution) said something to the effect of "When the Constitution doesn't say something, you must go back to what it does say."

The Emancipation Proclamation caused a desertion crisis in the United States Army. At least 200,000 Northern soldiers deserted;
"Post hoc fallacy. How many confederates deserted at the same time? Did they also quit because of the EP?"

You're sooooooooooooooooo full of crap on this one that you should be a Christmas goose. It is WELL DOCUMENTED that the desertion rate in the Union army was much higher and in answer to your query about the South after the EP I would tell you that it wasn't nearly a minute fraction of that. Why?! Because the Southern troops were fighting for their home soil! Geez, any moron could figure that one out. But the Northern troops weren't fighting to free the slaves, they were fighting to "preserve the Union" or in other words forcibly subjugate the Southern States in violation of those States' supposed "inalienable rights". Not to mention pillage, rapine and whatever other mischief they could dream up to inflict on Southern civilians.

"No, I just won't allow you to spout your "The south was right" crap unopposed. You guys were at it on these threads long before I came along."

Rita ... what an ugly thing to say! Does this mean we're not friends anymore? If you were not my friend I just don't think I could bear it. Does the truth hurt. It must really suck to find out that your side's reasons were really not "pure, white and holy". You think that we Southern boys are fanatical or nuts, and we think you Yankees are nothing more than loud mouthed ignorant bullies who try to get us to kowtow to your supposed wisdom, however you really get your knickers in a twist when you run into the fact that we don't.