Why, of course they do. And that one actually works as advertized!
Posted on 11/29/2011 9:01:13 AM PST by Liberty1970
Mats Lewan of Ny Teknik, the Swedish tech magazine at the forefront of reporting on Rossi’s eCat has an interesting article this morning. It notes the disparity between the recent pronouncement by Defkalion GT’s Alexandros Xanthoulis dissociating the Hyperion from Rossi’s eCat. According to the publication, back in August 5, 2011, Xanthoulis said the following over the phone:
“Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months.”
Rossi has been consistent in his assertion that they have nothing despite the company’s public stance that they had it all and would continue on course with or without him. This is possible, according to Xanthoulos in that same conversation because:
“First of all, the first problem was with 48 hours, that’s for sure. And he had a huge fight with one of my scientists, Mr Hadjichristos, you’ve heard of him most probably, Yiannis, because we were insisting on 48 hours. But we know the problem; we didn’t tell him of course, we know the problem.
I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy (Greek: ‘fasmatoscopy’) made by the university of Siena. It was an equipment made by the University of Siena. It understands everything that’s inside the reactor. So we know the components.”
Ny Teknik: Who did that?
“The University of Siena.
They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did. They checked it and we know what’s in the reactor.
So it’s a matter of two or three months that my scientists can reproduce that, but I’m not going to try it. I’m playing a fair game.
We solved the problem. The problems he’s got, we solved them. Because the problem is that he cannot spread the reaction all over the pipe, and all the heating is concentrated in the middle. So we found the solution.”
(This quote is slightly adjusted for clarity through advice from Defkalion
If this is true, it puts into perspective what Rossi has been saying all along about letting competitors near the system under the guise of testing it. But I wonder. The conversation took place back in August. Are they saying that Rossi gave access to Siena – within shouting distance of Piantelli? That’s a big deal if true. We know that Professor Celani (of INFN) tried to sneak some measurements in spectral mode but could not. Did someone at Siena really succeed? This statement is verifiable by the University. It would be interesting to hear them comment.
The situation – according to Defkalion has completely changed. Following up on the August conversation, Lewan recently got the following from the company:
“So much has changed since August, many minor events and issues have taken place making it hard to tie the story together with a few words of Alex back then. Defkalion is working on exothermic reactions between Nickel and Hydrogen. Our products have completely different technologies (encompassing electronics, engineering, materials) than from Rossi, even [if] we have understood where Rossi has made his mistakes.”
The article is in English and well worth reading in its entirety. There are other gems in there, including the following:
According to reliable sources to Ny Teknik, there are stakeholders who have tried to make commercial agreements with Rossi, and who are now actively seeking opportunities to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in this area.
The scene is perfectly set for Defkalion’s announcement tomorrow. The scriptwriter is working well.
[With thanks to Anders F]
Even the “sorry “ message double posted. Gonna have to stop posting from phone.
1. It makes it harder for E-cat skeptics to claim this whole thing is a hoax by Rossi. Do they really still think Defkalion is a puppet he controls? (Alternately, I would propose Rossi is a front man for someone else running the show, such as the Mafia - but why make such a complex soap opera of such a scam?)This wouldn't particularly surprise me. It certainly fits in with his previous history with Petrol Dragon (using a bogus invention to launder money).
Anyone who thinks it's "too complex" for a scam has never researched scams. The goal is to convince gullible investors that they need to get in now, without carefully reviewing the business, because otherwise they will miss out.
Also, keep in mind that both Defkalion and AmpEnergo were set up just for this show. As I've documented already, Rossi's company and AmpEnergo are run out of the same office, with the same phone number. That suggests that they aren't really separate companies at all, but only "paper" companies to make it look like there's serious business deals going on when it fact they're aren't.
I wouldn't be surprised if Rossi uses this as an "excuse" to stop offering E-Cats for sale, since he has to "defend" himself from Defkalion. This will allow him to continue hustling investors while he is excused from actually producing a working E-Cat.
Not for me it doesn't. Until I see these selling like hot cakes at Home Depot and getting rave reviews, this smells like three day old fish.
Well, they could’ve used mass spectroscopy to determine the composition of the material, and one of the various x-ray spectroscopy methods to determine its structure. (Just for example.)
I’ve done both quite a few times, so I know it (the spectroscopy) exists and it works.
Rossi does NOT have a legitimate reason to not allows third party tests with him or a rep around to ensure that they don't get Rossi's secret catalyst. The problem with that though, from basic chemistry, a catalyst is not used up in a reaction. What is my point? Well, Rossi handed out two samples, the before and after samples. If this is real (it's not) then all they have to do is assay the after samples and figure out the secret sauce, it's that easy. So, that can't be his real reason, he's already given it away and I expect him to have a B.A's knowledge of chemistry to know he handed out the catalyst so what is the real reason?
I get a lot of double postings when posting from my phone.
Actually, it fits very well with the scam model. Rossi has declared a moratorium on further public testing, and has gone to market. IF it's a scam, then the time to go to market is right now before the jig is really up.
Well, Rossi handed out two samples, the before and after samples. If this is real (it's not) then all they have to do is assay the after samples and figure out the secret sauce, it's that easy.My long-winded attempts to explain why the samples provided by Rossi contradict Rossi's claims about his device:
.
There have been a few folks here on FR who know what they're talking about and not stringing together, scienc-y sounding words and their point is Rossi, if he is to be believed, has done the science world a favor by being able to create these different isotopes easily. There's also the little matter of quantity. How many E-cats in his shipping container, was it 102? That's a lot of nickel (at the correct isotope %) and his secret sauce.
In other places, he mentions E-cats all over the place where he is 'testing' them.
The bottom line on the catalysts is this:
Rossi does NOT have a legitimate reason to not allows third party tests with him or a rep around to ensure that they don't get Rossi's secret catalyst. The problem with that though, from basic chemistry, a catalyst is not used up in a reaction. What is my point? Well, Rossi handed out two samples, the before and after samples. If this is real (it's not) then all they have to do is assay the after samples and figure out the secret sauce, it's that easy. So, that can't be his real reason, he's already given it away and I expect him to have a B.A's knowledge of chemistry to know he handed out the catalyst so what is the real reason?.
What, according to your scam hypotheses, is Rossi's relationship with Defkalion? Who is running the scam and how?
From all I've read of Rossi, he doesn't have the financial resources from his own wealth to operate a scam employing many other people. So unless we start by assuming that everything about Defkalion, Leonardo Corp, Hydrofusion, Ampenergo and so on is internet fakery (with few or no employees or physical locations, etc.) this has grown larger than what Rossi could have managed.
That's why I've been tossing out the mafia in recent suggestions. The idea being that Rossi is cooperating or has been blackmailed into running a scam on someone else's behalf. Someone with substantial resources. But that still doesn't explain the academic side of things, like Dr. George Miley's work here in Illinois or Piantelli and Focardi. If it's a mafia type operation they have an international reach and are able to coerce a number of academics to do their bidding.
The claims for the Ecat are extraordinary, and difficult to sustain based on scientific orthodoxy. But the claims that it is a fraud are also difficult to sustain while incorporating the full range of evidence.
I pinged muawiyah because she is an expert on the mob. Ask her your questions. Not only is she a self proclaimed expert on the mob but is also an E-cat true believer.
Don't forget, I think this is all a scam, every bit of it. It's also possible that a lot of these folks are (unknowingly to them) shills.
Why, of course they do. And that one actually works as advertized!
Does there have to be one? There is about to be a flux of money (device sales), and they both want a cut. Maybe it's just a shell corporation set up by him to create press. Everybody loves a fight. I don't know. What I do know is that cons are time sensitive, and everyone is rushing to sales right now.
The business relationship with Defkalion never really made an sense to me. Do they have any history before Rossi and the e-cat? Much was noise was made about IP protection back in the Defkalion days, but essentially, the device is a tube full of powder with a few electrodes in it. There's absolutely no way to protect it without a rock solid patent, and Rossi can't even describe in detail how it works. I would think the inventor would want to receive some ownership interest in a company for bringing that kind of technology on board. Instead he basically gave it to a nothing company, it makes no sense.
Look I have no pride invested in proving this is a scam, which I now think more than ever that it is. I have chosen to use time as my main tool of proof, and I have plenty of it. If a scam is revealed, I probably won't bother to say "told you so". If it work, I get practically free heat and energy for the rest of my life. Either way I win. 8]
I agree with you there, about the time sensitive part. It does make sense that if Defkalion were independent of Rossi (or a 3rd party over them both), and formerly cooperated with Rossi in his scam, they might try to salvage the situation by conducting an operation that looks like what they are doing now. Claim to have independently developed the same tech. and rush to sell it before either they or Rossi are exposed (at which time it's up for everyone involved).
So: IF they announce they have Ecats for sale, we'll have to see whether they offer proof for the operation of their Ecats first, and how any sales are to be structured (such as the claim for Rossi's 1 MW units that money is held in escrow until the buyer is satisfied.)
If they try to offer Ecats for sale based on the shared hype between them and Rossi but without offering their own proof, then the red flags go up. But if they do offer convincing evidence, then that vindicates both them and Rossi.
Agreed, but as for proof, I’d like to see them ship the components to a certification lab like TUV, have them assemble the unit and test it any way they like.
From all I've read of Rossi, he doesn't have the financial resources from his own wealth to operate a scam employing many other people. So unless we start by assuming that everything about Defkalion, Leonardo Corp, Hydrofusion, Ampenergo and so on is internet fakery (with few or no employees or physical locations, etc.) this has grown larger than what Rossi could have managed.asdf
Here is a summary of what I've dug up regarding Rossi's business arrangements in the United States...
HERE is the website for Rossi's company, Leonardo Corporation. Note the address and phone number.
HERE is the incorporation document for AmpEnergo, the American distributor of Rossi's E-Cat. Note that there is no real information other than an email address. HERE is the business entity document from the state of New Hampshire. Note that they have the same address as Rossi's company. There's no sign of a public phone number for this company.
HERE is the website for the founder of AmpEnergo, Karl Norwood. Notice that it's the same address and the same phone number as Leonardo Corporation. They have shared the same address and phone number for at least a couple of years (based on earlier versions of their web pages saved in the Internet "Way-Back Machine", http://archive.org).
HERE is the Google Maps page for that address. It's a profession office building, with rented offices and basic office services (kitchen area, copy machines, etc.). There are at least 24 other tenants of this complex, and none of them share the same phone number. So, we can rule out the phone number used by Rossi and Norwood as being a common phone number for the complex.
HERE is the brochure for the office complex, which happens to be managed by Karl Norwood. Notice that these are just generic office spaces, generally rented out to insurance agents and other similar businesses.
Rossi claimed to be manufacturing E-Cats in his Florida facilities. HERE is the incorporation document for Leonardo Corporation in Florida. It's a 5th-floor apartment, so it isn't likely that this is the manufacturing facility. Note that Nickel powder (which Rossi claims is the key ingredient in his "catalyst") is poisonous, so hopefully he isn't building them in a residential apartment building.
What conclusions can we draw?
I would love to do this kind of analysis of Defkalion (which was created specifically to sell E-Cats), but I don't read the native languages, and it's impractical to do this kind of research through Google Translate.
When I said "HERE is the incorporation document for AmpEnergo", what I meant to say was "HERE is the website for AmpEnergo".
It's understandable that they might want to be secretive at this stage of the game, either to hide from competitors/spies or hordes of Ecat groupies (which would be a real distraction). But I agree, the lack of a solid physical footprint looks suspicious.
He also has an Italian web site (his email on the American site points to it): http://eonsrl.com, but this site has been "under construction" at least since February 2010.
None of this indicates fraud, but it does indicate that this is a much smaller operation than everyone seems to be assuming (to your point).
It's Rossi's significant history of racketeering and fraud (described HERE that makes me think this is just another scam.
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