No Clapping, Dancing at Mass, Vatican to Warn

Reuters ^ | Tue, Sep 23, 2003 | Philip Pullella

[presidio9]

No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.

Those are some of the warnings contained in the draft of a document the Vatican (news - web sites) is preparing to crack down on what it considers "liturgical abuses" of the mass, the focus of Roman Catholic worship.

According to the authoritative Italian Roman Catholic monthly magazine "Jesus," a draft document urges the faithful to notify their bishop or the Vatican to report suspected abuses.

The magazine released an advance text of the article which will feature in its October edition.

If issued in its draft form, the document, known as a directive, could have wide-ranging ramifications on some worship practices that have come into common use in many developed countries, particularly the United States and in western Europe.

According to the magazine, the draft says the use of girl altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause" and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."

The Vatican in 1994 gave individual bishops the power to decide whether to allow altar girls in their dioceses. But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.

Traditionalists have also seen altar girls as a foot in the door to a female priesthood, which the church bans.

Italian media reported that the initial reaction to the draft, circulated to the world's bishops, has been negative and the document may have to be at least partially modified.

The draft document also discourages applause during masses and "dances inside the sacred building."

Ironically, Pope John Paul (news - web sites)'s sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause.

Some of the pope's masses in Rome and around the world have included dancing, particularly those celebrations marking Asian, African or Latin American events.

The document, drafted by two Vatican departments which oversee doctrine and liturgy, was ordered by the pope who will eventually have to approve a final version.

The draft also warns against the use of non-Biblical language during the mass, such as readings from poets.

It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.

Catholics believe Christ is present in the wafer and wine but the document says it is preferable just to receive the wafer.

"Self-service" communion is also frowned upon. This appeared to be a reference to the faithful taking the consecrated host directly from the chalice instead of receiving it on their tongue from the hand of a priest.

[sspxsteph]

No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic Oh darn, there goes the whole reason of going to church.

[Aquinasfan]

We no longer abstain from meat every single Friday of the year...yet that's the 'rules' my parents grew up with.

There is Church discipline and there is Church dogma. Apparently you were poorly catechized, like the rest of us. Now that you're an adult, you can educate yourself. There are plenty of resources at your fingertips these days.

[NeoCaveman]

Yes, you are to consume Jesus.
Why is that controversial?

And that happens in the Eastern Orthodox, and the Roman Catholic (and a few othes) every Sunday, the rest it is just symbolism. And that's not my take, that's what I hear from friends and family who are not Catholic explaining their faith (which when they explain it is beautifuly Christian but just doesn't go quite as far as the Orhtodox or Caths).

[ventana]

Well, I would much rather see my fellow concelebrants wearing belly shirts, cutoffs, and flip flops then a decent hat or veil. Though I must say, the black gentleman I exchange hellos with at my local church looks terribly dapper and refined in his hat and suit. And the black church ladies at the pentecostal church across the street look marvelous in their pretty hats and pastel suits. V's wife.

[VermiciousKnid]

Mantillas are easily available online. You can do a search for "chapel veils" and BINGO several places will come up.

Or...you can Freepmail me and I can give you the web addy.

Regards,

PS: I am a chapel cap (doilie) wearer myself. AND I do it at an N.O. Mass. Some ladies ask me where I got it (Grandma made it for me the week I was born), and some ladies ask me if I'm crazy (I don't think so but I could be wrong about that). Meanwhile, I just keep on doing what I think is the right thing.

[Skooz]

666

[NeoCaveman]

Now that is funny, thanks for the laugh

[Skooz]

You're welcome. Right place, right time, right thread.

[Aquinasfan]

John 3:30 - He must increase, but I must decrease.

Then listen to what He says. Jesus founded a Church which The Word calls the "pillar and foundation of truth." Moreover, this Church must be a visible, doctrinally unified church since Jesus commands us in Scripture to take our disputes to the church. If you want Him to increase in your life then you will listen to Him speak through His Church.

[wardaddy]

It is my opinion that the majority of urban Protestant denominations are either apostate or borderline.

The Pentacostal Church I attended last weekend was about 15% black....fairly close to Nashville demographics.

I have never attended an AME service but I know some are pretty tight with Dem ward bosses.

However, I went to several funerals as a kid at some outer-urban/rural black Missionary or Primitive Baptist churches and they were very much Old Covenant "behavior bears consequences and responsibility matters" oriented.

Fortunately for me, my wife is in accord with me on this matter.

(sorry for mentioning my wife favorably, some freeper called Husker something cursed me out good the other night for excessive bragging about my wife..lol...poor guy)

Regards.

[Skooz]

His Church is made up of believers of all denominations. Believers who worship in in Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, Armenien, Baptist, Roman Catholic, Pentecostal, Methodist, etc. churches all make up the Church--the one true Church which Christ founded and for which He spilled His blood.

The one true Church for which He is returning very soon.

[rdb3]

If you want Him to increase in your life then you will listen to Him speak through His Church.

I listen to Him speak through the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit of God that bears witness to my spirit that I am a son of God. Since I am born again, I have direct access to the Father through Jesus Christ and I have fellowship with Him.

John 1:12 & 13 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

[ventana]

Aliska. Contemplate on the Angels and their mission. Focus on them and find Bible passages. Imagine them: pure beings full of grace. They announce the gospel to the shepherds; they console our Lord in His agony. They raise the dead from the tomb and lead saints to paradise. They wait. I pray that you will be inspired by a contemplation of these divine creatures. V's wife.

[VermiciousKnid]

LOL...at least it wasn't ME who got the 666 post #...that kind of think weirds me out a little.

Regards,

[Skooz]

You know the Social Security Administration will no longer change someone's Social Security number because it includes "666." They did for 50 years, but it became too much of a hassle finding new numbers for people.

[Aquinasfan]

Thankfully, previous attempts to modernize the church's beliefs by recognizing such scientific discoveries as Heliocentrism, debunking of Creationism, etc.

At the same time that Galileo was placed under house arrest, several Cardinals were funding Copernicus' astronomical research into the theory of heliocentricity. Why then was Galileo "persecuted" and Copernicus not? Because Galileo repeatedly demanded that the Church teach his theory (which was a minority scientific theory at the time) as dogma. Scientific teaching has always been outside the competency of the church since the Church teaches infallibly only regarding faith and morals. Additionally, the finding of the tribunal was the product of a disciplinary commission, the findings of which were never considered to be infallible.

The Church teaches no scientific doctrine regarding human origins, but holds the following metaphysical positions: that the human race began with a single man and woman and that the universe was created from nothing. Nevertheless, from a strictly scientific perspective, the theory of evolution is in freefall.

[Possenti]

At 33, I'm hardly a "silly old poof", but the things you cite as disagreeable to you are what I look for in a church: Tradition.

- Not a social club or some kind of a feminist-inspired social experiment. Contrary to what many believe these days, a "church" is not all about the individual - it's all about (or supposed to be) about God.

[NeoCaveman]

You're welcome. Right place, right time, right thread.,

I'm going to assume you are not meaning, what I suspect you are meaning.

[Skooz]

Absolutely correct. It was the Catholic Church, through the devout Catholic Copernicus, that established the heliocentric theory. The geocentric theory, which predated organized Christianity, was accepted by Christians and non-Christians alike for 1500 years.

The malicious (and pervasive) teaching that the Catholic Church persecuted Galileo because he discovered things which conflicted with Church teachings is a complete falsehood. The Vatican employed several astronomers who concurred with Galileo's findings and no Church teaching was in any way compromised.

But, that doesn't stop modern science from exploiting Galileo's "martyrdom" to take shots at Christianity. They never let the facts get in the way of a good Christophobic attack.

[VermiciousKnid]

Tell me about it. My sister-in-law tried for months to get her credit card company to change her card number. Apparently the gal on the other end of the line didn't quite understand my s-i-l's request, because she kept getting card after card that started "666."

Finally, my s-i-l called me about it and I said, "Sue, the reason the 666 doesn't go away is because that is the BANK'S number. You will have to totally cancel the account and get a new card from a different bank."

I'm A LITTLE weirded out by it, but I would NEVER call the bank to change my card number if it was on it. (But every time I used it, I'd think about that number...)

Regards,