[CCWoody]

Hi Mack. Are you advocating simple foreknowledge? ~ RF to Big Mack

I would point out that the "simple foreknowledge" view actually contradicts the golden chain of Predestination. After all, if God foreknew those who had faith and then chose to "justify" them, He is making a lie of His own scriptures. Those who have this kind of faith are already justified.


"Whom He called, these He also justified."

What the call creates is faith. The call of God is not a mere invitation to people with the power of self-determination. It is an act of creation in people who are spiritually dead. When God looked forward into history He did not see a people using powers of self-determination to believe; he saw people enslaved to sin and spiritual death, whose only hope was that the sovereign call of God would create the faith He commands.


• Our glorification is guranteed by out being justified graciously by God.
• Our justification is guaranteed by our being called graciously by God.
• Our calling is guranteed by our being predestined graciously by God.
• Our predestination is guaranteed by our being freely and graciously and intimately known by God.

It is utterly impossible for God to foresee faith which He did not create in us. Faith justifys and if man already has justifying faith, then God Predestining, calling, & justifying us is a lie. God cannot justify that which is already just.

Besides, the Arminians problem is actually even more simple than that. In order for the Arminians construct to be true, he must actually deny God Omnipotence in order to uphold this kind of "Omniscience." After all, if God, from before the foundation of the world is able to see all potentials which He may sovereignly choose to create, then, simply by that act of creating this over that, He has chosen the ends of all eternity, just exactly as we are told in the Scriptures:

Matthew 11: 20 - 27 -- Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you." At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure. "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
• God foreknew Tyre and Sidon's free choice NOT TO REPENT in the case of His non-performance of such Miracles; AND
• God foreknew Tyre and Sidon's free choice TO REPENT in the case of His performance of such Miracles; AND
• God CHOSE not to perform these Miracles in Tyre and Sidon, a choice which had as its perfectly foreknown result the NON-Repentance of Tyre and Sidon, just as He foreknew.

And, so, even granting God a "simple foreknowledge," the thoughtless Arminian has still not changed the reality that it is God who chose and not man. Eventually, the Arminians will get around to figuring this out, which is why the first Arminians & Wesley were "Middle Knowledge" heretics. They really are of the same spirit as the Pelagian heretics.

Woody.

You Might Be an Arminian If....

You think that "Calvinism" is arrogant for saying that God elects some and not others, but you think you are really humble for saying that God elected you because He knew you'd think He was a pretty swell dude for offering you a life preserver even though you were only in the shallow end of the pool anyway, and that in your niceness, you'd accept His offer of your own "free will".

[dangus]

>> but you think you are really humble for saying that God elected you because He knew you'd think He was a pretty swell dude for offering you a life preserver even though you were only in the shallow end of the pool anyway, and that in your niceness, you'd accept His offer of your own "free will". >>

Well, see that's where the whole thing about not judging comes in. CALVINISTS believe they're simply created better than other people; they're good, everyone else is evil. Catholics recognize that that they have been saved by God, but through the workings of the Church. Not becuase they were created Godly while others were created evil, but because others suffered for their salvation. And they offer prayers and sacrifices so that all may be saved:
"O my Jesus, forgive us our sins; save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all souls to Heaven ESPECIALLY those in MOST NEED of your MERCY." Pray that over and over again, and its difficult to subscribe to the heresy that your own good works were the CAUSE of your salvation.