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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain; RochesterFan; Frumanchu; drstevej
Change "has chosen" to "knows" and "He will", to "will be saved", you will then have it right. Come on boy get with the program. :) BigMack

Sorry, no can do...

Rom 9:12-24 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. (13) As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (14) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. (15) For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. (16) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. (17) For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. (18) Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. (19) Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? (20) Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? (22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: (23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, (24) Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

My Bible says He did chose, not just "know", and He did decide whom He would save, not just let them decide for themselves.

24 posted on 09/07/2003 8:14:09 PM PDT by nobdysfool (All men are born Arminians...the Christian ones that grow up become Calvinists...)
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To: nobdysfool
My Bible says He did chose, not just "know", and He did decide whom He would save, not just let them decide for themselves.

I really feel bad for you being so wrong and all. :)

God says that He used Pharaoh. “But,” you may say, “he was not elected.” No, he sure wasn’t. Just think of the opportunities God gave him. Pharaoh would have said, “I am Pharaoh. I make the decisions around here. I reject the request to let the people of Israel go.” God says, “You may think you won’t, but you are going to let them go.” God’s will prevails. When the Scriptures say that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, it means that God forced Pharaoh to make the decision that was in his heart. God forced him to do the thing he wanted to do. There never will be a person in hell who did not choose to be there. You are the one who makes your own decision.

Paul shows that God deals in patience and mercy even with the vessels of wrath. God did not fit them for destruction, the rebellion and sin of the clay made them ripe for judgment. God would have been right in exercising immediate judgment, but He dealt with these vessels, not as lifeless clay, but as creatures with a free will. He gave them ample opportunity to reveal any inclination they might have of obeying God. Although God hates sin and must judge it in a most final manner, His mercy is constantly going out to the creatures involved.

BigMack

26 posted on 09/07/2003 8:36:47 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain (Prov. 9:7-8)
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To: nobdysfool
In your passage from Romans, I see nothing saying, "I chose certain people to be evil." Even the people who were crucifying him were offered forgiveness.

He KNOWS before we are born what we WILL do, and prepares us so that what we do fits into his great plan.
85 posted on 09/08/2003 10:45:04 AM PDT by dangus
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