Questions about "returning" to Catholicism (Input requested)

August 6, 2003 | self

[visualops]

A brief history to put my questions in context. My parents are Catholic, I was baptized Catholic. In my mid-20's I met and married a Greek Orthodox man. In the process, I converted to Greek Orthodox(old calendar), so we could have a religious wedding (otherwise there would have been no wedding believe me). Anyway fast-forward 10 years later and we got divorced. He obtained a religious divorce as well so he could remarry, which he eventually did. I have also since remarried (a non-Catholic in a civil ceremony only). Now what I'm wanting to know is where I now stand in regards the Catholic Church. Obviouslly I realize going to the local diocese etc etc may/will be in order. I tried googling around but didn't find anything pertaining to my particular situation. I feel as if I don't formally belong anywhere at the moment, and that bothers me on many levels.

[visualops]

I would simply appreciate some input from you knowledgeable folks on what to expect should I pursue this. Regardless I do plan to attend church sometime in the future.

[visualops]

p.s. I won't be up much longer so I may not respond til the morning or tomorrow evening. Thanks

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Its my understanding that EO and Catholic weddings are canonical in both churches, so it counts.

[Maximilian]

This is a very complex situation. Unless there are some canon lawyers on this forum tonight, I don't think you could get a really good answer. Many Catholics here at FR would know the answers to the basic questions, but your situation is quite difficult to sort out from a technical standpoint, although it may not be so difficult as a practical matter if you approach a priest.

[sinkspur]

Neither of your marriages were valid, in the eyes of the Church, unless you received a dispensation to marry a Greek Orthodox from your diocese. If you did, you'll need to seek an annulment of that marriage. If not, you weren't validly married.

You ought to make a good confession, but, other than that, you have no reason to go to the diocese for anything.

[sinkspur]

Neither of your marriages were valid, in the eyes of the Church, unless you received a dispensation to marry a Greek Orthodox from your diocese. If you did, you'll need to seek an annulment of that marriage. If not, you weren't validly married.

You ought to make a good confession, but, other than that, you have no reason to go to the diocese for anything.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

I hadn't thought about that aspect. Good point.

[Maximilian]

This is a very complex situation. Unless there are some canon lawyers on this forum tonight, I don't think you could get a really good answer. Many Catholics here at FR would know the answers to the basic questions, but your situation is quite difficult to sort out from a technical standpoint, although it may not be so difficult as a practical matter if you approach a priest.

[Maximilian]

This is a very complex situation. Unless there are some canon lawyers on this forum tonight, I don't think you could get a really good answer. Many Catholics here at FR would know the answers to the basic questions, but your situation is quite difficult to sort out from a technical standpoint, although it may not be so difficult as a practical matter if you approach a priest.

[Maximilian]

That was bizarre that it posted twice, and several minutes apart. Not sure how it happened.

[sinkspur]

BTW, are you wanting to make your second marriage valid? You could do this by going to your parish priest. You should do that, BTW, if you feel that this marriage is permanent and sacramental.

[Maximilian]

Neither of your marriages were valid, in the eyes of the Church, unless you received a dispensation to marry a Greek Orthodox from your diocese.

It could be more complex than that. If she "apostized" and joined the Greek church before the marriage, then there would be the issue of apostasy, but the marriage would be valid.

You ought to make a good confession, but, other than that, you have no reason to go to the diocese for anything.

Even in the scenario you paint, there is still the question of the current marriage, which is almost certainly invalid. Going to confession is not going to solve that problem. If you are "living in sin" in the current situation, then the confession would only be valid if you intend to break off the sinful situation, and in any case you'd be right back where you started the next day.

[TheStickman]

I'm curious and a non-catholic. What do you mean by *making the marriage sacramental"?

[sinkspur]

Max, she was baptized a Catholic. Canon Law is very clear that, even in the case of apostasy, she did not marry validly in the Greek Orthodox ceremony UNLESS she received a dispensation from her diocese.

Yes, a confession would require that she remedy the current invalid marriage. But a priest might help her in that forum.

[Saint Athanasius]

Dear visualops,

I am not a canon lawyer, but as I understand it... if want to come back to the Catholic Church (which by the way is awesome!!!)... you need to do a couple of things.

First of all, you can start attending Mass immediately.

There is no problem with you attending Mass, but there is a catch... (and a lot of people get upset at the Church for this but it makes sense) you can not receive Eucharist at Mass unless you go to Reconciliation (Confession with a Priest). Once you goto Confession, you must abstain from sexual relations from your new husband.

There is a couple of reason why this is...

1. As the Church sees it, you are still married to your first husband... and you are committing adultery with your second.

2. You may want to request for an annulment from your first husband... this does not mean that you will get one...

The Church will look to see if you have any grounds to say that your marriage to your first husband was not a marriage at all... (there are a lot of reasons why, but I will leave that to the canon lawyer)

While you are still seeking the annulment, you still must refrain from sexual relations with your second husband...

3. If the annulment goes through, then get your marriage blessed by the Church and both you and your husband can receive the Sacraments (provided that your husband converts)

That I believe is it in a nut shell, but I will give you a web site that can help you out...

God Bless!

http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/conference.htm

P.S. - you can search for annulment in the Canon Law section... some of the bins are full right now.

Again, God Bless

[sinkspur]

What do you mean by *making the marriage sacramental"?

Marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic Church. It is a direct sign of God's intervention and presence in our lives.

To contract a valid sacramental marriage in the Catholic Church, both parties must be free to marry (no previous valid marriages) and recite their vows in front of a representative of the Church (a priest, or deacon, or, by dispensation, a Protestant minister) and two other witnesses.

[sinkspur]

Athanasius, Unless visualops received a dispensation to marry in a Greek Orthodox Church in front of a Greek Orthodox priest, she did not contract a valid Catholic marriage. That is Canon Law.

Her current marriage is invalid, in any event.

Visualops, send me an e-mail, giving me the name of your diocese, and I will send you the name of someone in your tribunal to work through all this.

[Saint Athanasius]

I agree...

A point I overlooked... A Catholic must marry in the Church or get a dispensation to marry outside.

Thanks for pointing that out...

[lrslattery]

She should still contact the tribunal.

There is the little issue of whether she defected from the Church. I would presume she did - she said she "converted". That would normally be viewed as her having defected by a formal act.

If that is the case, (and assuming no other impediments) then the marriage would be presumed to be valid...Canon Law states that a sacramental bond exists when both husband and wife are baptized Christians. (Additional requirements for Catholics, such as dispensation from form, etc)

It would be better in any case for the diocesan tribunal to review ALL the facts of the case and make a determination. We are at a "slight" disadvantage here on a forum to make such a decision (nor are any of us competent to make such a determination). That is the purpose of the tribunal.