Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

RECOVERING THE TRUTH & A COMING TO A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF JESUS
Bet Emet Ministries ^ | Unknown | Craig Lyons

Posted on 07/01/2003 10:22:12 AM PDT by ksen

RECOVERING THE TRUTH & A COMING TO A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF JESUS

Jesus and all his followers were Jews who were faithful to Biblical Judaism and never intended to separate from or start a new religion; after their deaths the Gentile Christian church will condemn the Jewish Christians as heretics...in time fruit of the Jewish Church (Gentile Christianity) will destroy it's mother

We have a unique paradox in Biblical history; one which touches every follower of Jesus yet today and which reaches to the very core of our own culture and time. It is impossible to understand Jesus or his message until we come to a correct understanding of the events that fashioned such persecution of the Jews by the Gentile believers and which contributed to the alteration of the faith of Jesus as can be found to have existed in the first century of Second Temple Judaism. As stated earlier the first and greatest division in the early church concerned the relationship of the followers of Jesus to Judaism; it shaped everything that was to follow. One of the greatest problems facing Christianity today is how to reconcile what it has become with G-d's intended vision for the Gentile nations of the world whereby they become part of the Israel of G-d and not "replace" it with a religion of their own creation. The answers for such a problem come only when one personally acquaints himself with an unbiased presentation of the facts of the tragic events of this part of Biblical history and traces the repercussions of such events down through the corridors of history and ultimately seeing the shock waves from them that are present in our own religious beliefs systems and cultures of today.

Today many scholars tell us the truth today about the early church and courageously break from "church traditions" and "mind control" to present the facts concerning these "events" and the corruption of the early faith of the historical Jesus by the Gentile "converts" who would later steer the direction of this "faith" throughout recorded history. It is so simple today to find this information, but sadly few look or even know the need to see if "they be in the faith." That being the case, we accept the "spin" of religious leaders down through history and the real message of Jesus is never heard, or at best, is overlooked for more "orthodox teachings" espoused which have taken it's place. Keith Akers, in his The Lost Religion of Jesus, states the case as well as any. Jewish Christianity consisted of those early Christians who followed the teachings of Jesus, as they understood him, and also remained loyal to the Jewish law of Moses as they understood it. Messianic Judaism was not to replace Judaism with a new faith; it was the goal and zenith for which the prophets wrote and hoped. This simple statement is of profound importance, because the Jewish Christians were eventually rejected both by orthodox Judaism and by orthodox Gentile Christianity. The understanding of the Jewish follower of Jesus was not that of orthodox Christianity (as it came to be where Jesus is seen more like the sun-g-dmen of the Gentile nations than a human messiah). Likewise the Jewish follower of Jesus possessed an understanding of the law of Moses that was the same as orthodox Judaism, but yet this view would later be rejected under the influence of Paul and his churches. Jerome's celebrated comment in the fourth century summarizes this dual rejection: "As long as they seek to be both Jews and Christians, they are neither Jews nor Christians" [Letter 112] (Akers, The Lost Religion of Jesus, p. 7).

The Jewish Christians considered Jesus to be the "true prophet" who would lead the people back to the eternal law that commanded simple living and nonviolence. They saw in Jesus their hopes for physical redemption and the fulfillment of the prophets. It was their hope that the Law would go forth from Zion with Jesus at its head as the long awaited Messiah and King of Israel. It was their hope that the enemies of Israel would be vanquished by the word of this anointed one of the LORD as taught in the Psalms of Solomon (no not the psalms you are familiar with but a separate Jewish books that was recognized by Jews as authoritative in the first century). The law, which was cherished by all G-dfearing Jews, had been given to Moses; indeed, it had existed from the beginning of the world, and was intended to be cherished and observed by both Jew and non-Jew alike because in the Commandments one finds the unique Covenant stipulations of his Covenant before G-d. In sharp contrast with the gentile Christian movement, which emerged in the wake of Paul's teaching, Jewish Christianity strove to make the Jewish law stricter than the Jewish tradition seemed to teach ("you have heard it said but I say unto you...'much more'"). Such was the Jesus' love for G-d and His Word. But this cannot be said for the Gentile churches which strove to find ways to lay aside the law for the laxity that was taught under the disguise of "grace." In other words, the non-Jews loved the large "gray areas" that came from the teaching of Paul and others who negated the Law through their own personal "revelations" and their own personal "gospels" (Paul is found saying in Rom 2:16 16: In the day when G-d shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel and again in 2 Tim 2:8 8: Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel). It is a little early in this article to address this concept but if you study continues you will reach a point in your understanding and knowledge where you will see beyond any doubt that the "gospel of Paul" replaced the "gospel of Jesus and Judaism."

Jewish Christianity is the blind spot in virtually all accounts of Jesus. Everyone agrees that Jesus was a Jew and that his initial followers were Jews. Yet of the thousands of books written about Jesus, almost none acknowledge the central importance of Jewish Christianity; at least until the end of the previous century and the beginning of the present one. That was true up until the latter part of the last century when Jewish, as well as European scholars began to reevaluate the Jewish Jesus and contrast the Historical Jesus with the Christ of Faith. There are many who are eager to focus specifically on the Jewishness of Jesus, until they get to the point of examining those of his followers who, like their teacher, were also Jewish, and in doing so see for themselves that actually nothing really changed within this community of the closest followers of Jesus until the early fourth century when Rome would effectively destroy the Jewish "followers of Jesus" by declaring them official heretics. The power of Rome would propagate a Gentile understanding and not a Jewish understanding of Jesus (see Constantine's Easter letter if you have any doubts).

The "Jewishness" of these early Christians does not refer to their ethnic group or nationality, but rather to their beliefs. Paul was a convert to Judaism (H. Maccoby, The Mythmaker, Paul And The Invention Of Christianity) and only later converted to Judaism; first a Sadducee, and after rejection by the Chief Priest he turned to the Pharisees, again only to be rejected by them for his prior cruelty to them as an agent of the Temple police who routed them out and killed them (the Messianic believing strict branch of the Pharisees called Nazarenes/Essenes). Paul also preaches freedom from the law and therefore explicitly rejects Jewish beliefs. Paul, and some of the other Jews who became Christians, renounced the law of Moses and, therefore, were not part of Jewish Christianity. The churches of Paul today (vast majority of Christianity as it exists today) lay outside the true faith of Jesus and will continue to do so unless they encounter the truth about this man of Galilee and the truth about their own religious history.

Without understanding Jewish Messianic Judaism or "intended Christianity", we cannot understand the historical Jesus let alone the earliest church nor the corruption of it within the New Testament correctly. Lacking this knowledge we are doomed to misinterpret most of what we read in the New Testament and our worship let alone our conduct will be in error...much of which is defined as sin in the Torah.


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 1,861 next last
To: Invincibly Ignorant
Two questions ...
1. What does it mean (to you) that Yeshua is God's only begotten son?

2. Why do you believe that the begetting of Yeshua occurred at his baptism (i.e. what supports this belief for you) ?
Before I answer these and since I've already answered a couple of your previous questions. What are your views concerning pre-existeance of Messiah?

I think I'm ready to present an answer to your query here ... (I wanted to check out my scriptural support first)

I believe that the following passage of scripture testifies to the pre-existence of the Messiah ...
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

121 posted on 07/01/2003 2:30:58 PM PDT by A_Thinker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

Comment #122 Removed by Moderator

To: SoothingDave
The Gospels are clearly the minimum core of inspired post-ressurection writings. They all agree with one another splendidly, and we know that there MUST be a body of scripture preserved by God, which reflects what Jesus did say, since, as God's premier prophet, God would not allow that core to perish, and would preserve it. So, to put it most simply, the other three Gospels testify to Luke, and their four-fold consistency proves that they are indeed the ones sent by God into our time which tell us of Jesus.

The aggreement of research, the early church fathers, the present church, and all times in between, show that it is appropriate to attribute the Gospels and other NT writings to the authors that they have always been attributed to.
123 posted on 07/01/2003 2:37:06 PM PDT by thirdheavenward
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: A_Thinker
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

YHWH has always know His plan for Messiah. This scripture, again, doesn't prove Messiah is YHWH. Another retroactive reading. Why do you think the doctrine of the trinity wasn't required for salvation until 425 ad?

124 posted on 07/01/2003 2:37:10 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: ksen
Ping to my #116

Sure, once you address my #115, and how the definitions show no indication of a triumvirate, or do you think Yahweh mispoke and meant trinity and He goofed and said ONE?

125 posted on 07/01/2003 2:37:34 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Luke 16:17 -- And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 117 | View Replies]

To: ksen
Is Jehovah sending Himself? Who is Adonai Jehovah sending and who is this Jehovah that is being sent?

It reads to me like He's sending Isaiah.

126 posted on 07/01/2003 2:41:11 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 116 | View Replies]

To: ET(end tyranny)
We Trinitarians also believe God is One. He has one Essence and one being.

Now you said at the beginning of #115 in reference to the passage from Isaiah 48:16-17 that it is God the Father.

Was He describing sending Himself or someone else?
127 posted on 07/01/2003 2:43:15 PM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
It reads to me like He's sending Isaiah.

That could be plausible, except for two things:

1.) He refers to himself as the "LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel", and
2.) In verses 12 and 13 where the same person is speaking he is called the "first and the last" and the one who "laid the foundations of the earth."

Isaiah was a great prophet, but he wasn't that great.

128 posted on 07/01/2003 2:46:42 PM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies]

To: ET(end tyranny)
Though he may deny it, one of the most treacherous, bitterly anti-Paul and anti-New Testament, subtle, and deceitful sueEb hyena pack leaders is Craig Lyons of Bet Emet ministries. He lures people into his site presenting himself as a searching Christian, even as he condemns all things with the slightest scent of Christianity. He falsifies himself often as a Christian, even though he is actually a VERY stauch antiChristian, to disarm those previously mentioned whose faith is in a weakened state and who are looking for guidance. His methods are a textbook example of deception. This is yet one of many ways he uses subtlety and deception throughout his spider’s web-world of trickery. I never cease to be amazed at his shamelessness and treacherously hidden agenda. His teachings are a mirror image of the general sueEb principles; therefore, anything I say about them applies to him and vice versa. His specialty is boiling frogs.

Hey ET - what do you make of this? Isn't Craig Lyons' material the stuff you've been quoting here on FR?

129 posted on 07/01/2003 2:47:19 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Athanasius contra mundum!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: ksen
You still haven't answered my question. Did Yahweh mispeak? Was there anything in those definitions that indicated a triumvirate?

A trinity mean three, NOT ONE.

130 posted on 07/01/2003 2:49:27 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Luke 16:17 -- And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
Do you every wonder how your cult fell upon a truth that has been missed by men more learned than you?

Ha! Have you ever wondered why most people in the world aren't Christians, learned or otherwise?

What's sauce for the goose....

131 posted on 07/01/2003 2:51:04 PM PDT by Pahuanui (when A Foolish Man Hears The tao, He Laughs Out Loud.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: ET(end tyranny)
No, Yahweh did not mispeak.

There was nothing in those definitions that indicated or contraindicated the Trinity as defined by most of Orthodox Christianity.
132 posted on 07/01/2003 2:52:59 PM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 130 | View Replies]

To: ksen
I dunno. I went to that chapter and read it. Isaiah weaves in and out of speaking for the Lord and referring to himself.
133 posted on 07/01/2003 2:55:03 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 128 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

YHWH has always known His plan for Messiah.


So ... you read this as speaking of the concept of Messiah, ... as opposed to the person of Messiah ?
... shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel ... "


This scripture, again, doesn't prove Messiah is YHWH.

I believe that this verse speaks to the Messiah's pre-existence, once again, ... not the whole of the argument for Messiah's deity.

Why do you think the doctrine of the trinity wasn't required for salvation until 425 ad?

I don't believe that belief in the Trinity is necessary for one to be saved.

I do, from my studies, believe that it is true ... but, I don't believe that it is necessary.

134 posted on 07/01/2003 2:55:57 PM PDT by A_Thinker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]

To: ksen
Hey 133 posts. You did well. :-)
135 posted on 07/01/2003 2:56:20 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 132 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy; ET(end tyranny)
ET is of the anti-Christ, he thinks we didn't notice
136 posted on 07/01/2003 2:56:42 PM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 129 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
I'm outta here for tonight.

I'll check back in tomorrow.
137 posted on 07/01/2003 2:57:38 PM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM - Entmoot or Bust!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 133 | View Replies]

To: A_Thinker
I do, from my studies, believe that it is true ... but, I don't believe that it is necessary.

You're a breath of fresh air then. Most others have me burning in hell already. :-)

138 posted on 07/01/2003 3:00:30 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 134 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy
I've read quite a bit of his site over the years and have gotten ideas for posts from material at his site. I also have gotten information from the lexicon's, Greek and Hebrew. The lexicon having given me a better understanding of Paul, who indeed was bringing gentiles to Christ/Judaism.

Sometimes it does indeed pay to read other material than just the NT and just church approved material.

Oh, I also get the newsletters from Bet Emet, and think that a lot of people could learn a great deal from his site. If they are not afraid of the truth, that is.

His site raises questions and offers answers. He has quite a scholastic record, but you probably didn't look that far.

139 posted on 07/01/2003 3:00:33 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Luke 16:17 -- And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 129 | View Replies]

To: ksen
No, Yahweh did not mispeak.

Then perhaps we should take Him at His word, huh? He said, ONE.

140 posted on 07/01/2003 3:02:31 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Luke 16:17 -- And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 132 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 1,861 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson