Posted on 05/19/2003 6:31:16 AM PDT by drstevej
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Where Have All the FR Protestants Gone?
drstevej
Posted on 04/08/2003 12:29 PM CDT by drstevej
OBSERVATIONS:
[1] There seems to be a significantly reduced number of Protestant Threads (KJV Only being the exception for sure) in the FR Religion Forum.
[2] There seems to be a reduced number of FR Protestant posts in the Religion Forum.
This thread is a place to discuss these observations.
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Could someone arrange for a funeral mass? (a clown mass in this case might be in order).
-- Pope Piel I (thinking of abdicating prior to even assuming the Chair of Peter)
Here's a whole page of these Missals that don't exist.
Do you guys get better seats in your chapels depending on how many lies you tell each week?
SD
So they aren't brought into the Church until they are dead? You believe there are people who die without being a part of the Church who then, after they die, become part of the Church?
SD
Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence. Christ's presence is virtual only, in the assembly and in the Scripture readings--precisely the emphasis given in the Novus Ordo. The Protestant ritual is a memorial meal, a commemoration of Christ's sacrifice, a looking-back on what happened two thousand years ago once and for all. Nothing is immolated. There is, in fact, no altar of immolation, no priesthood to do the immolating, no sacrifice per se.
Duh. I know all this. I am as Catholic as you purport to be. Stop the lecturing and get on with the evidence for the assertions you make.
In imitation of this, the Novus Ordo calls the priest a "presider" and emphasizes the virtual presence of Christ--ignoring His Real Presence, suppressing, in fact, this central Catholic dogma. You claim the sacrificial structure has not been destroyed. But Bugnini started where Luther began--by tossing out the Offertory and substituting a prayer of thanks. There is no Offertory in the new Mass--none, zilch. The "Presentation of the gifts" make no allusion to our sinfulness or to the nature of the sacrifice.
Blind assertion. Are you so into your dogma that you can't see that you are only parroting things and are providing no compelling argument?
As for your being "a smart guy"--I don't think so. You apparently don't understand the fundamental meanings behind the Mass which all traditional Catholics commonly appreciate. You assume the Novus Ordo is Catholic--since you've been brought up to believe it is. But it is theologically Protestant--and just barely valid as a Mass. It supports none of the ancient teachings about the Real Presence, about His unbloody sacrifice, about the need for propitiation for our sins.
More assertion.
These are fundamental Catholic doctrines--which you seem to think are "rants" or "pet theories" on my part, rather than the perennial teachings of the Church. You need to read the Council of Trent.
What if I read Trent and don't agree with you? Maybe you need to understand that your rants are not arguments.
OK, you like the Latin Mass. You think it does a better job explaining teachings. More power to you.
But to attack the NO Mass just because you don't like it is why you marginalize yourself. I get all of Catholic theology from the NO Mass, without being told 12 times. And it drives you crazy.
You keep lecturing me on Catholic belief, cause your paradigm is shattered. Your arguments are only effedtive against the ignorant NO Catholic. In this manner you are no better than the Protestants who steal our ignorant sheep.
SD
Try post 268:
This right to religious freedom is blasphemous, for it attributes to God purposes that destroy His Majesty, His Glory, His Kingship. This right implies freedom of conscience, freedom of thought, and all the Masonic freedoms.
SD
If it was a Catholic state, I would not object to that. I would also not object to Israel identifying non-Jews in the same manner.
In the Novus Ordo World, the baptized and unbaptized share a common fatherhood as God's children
I get all of Catholic theology from the NO Mass. Exactly, this is what the Trads have asserted all along.
Coming from a guy whose religious beliefs are centered around religious liberty, it's not surprising you would make a comment like that.
No, I'm sorry, you are wrong here. You might want to read "The Mass of the early Christians" by Mike Aquilina. It is extensively researched and footnoted and was written using all available early Christian writings. The early Christians actually took consecrated loaves of bread HOME for consumption during the week. I doubt they carried entire loaves of bread in their mouths.
The other day I was reading my "Magnificat" missal for May 19th, and found a prayer written by Joseph the Visionary who was a monk (not an ordained priest) @ 750AD. Here is a little piece of it:
To You be praise
First-born of Being,
exalted and full of awe,
for, by the sacrifice of your body,
you have effected salvation for the world.
0 Christ, Son from the Holy Father,
to you do I pray in awe at this time;
of you, Lord, do I ask your will
and beseech your compassion,
that my whole person may be made holy
through your grace,
and that the enemy's constraint upon me
may be rendered ineffective.
Purify my understanding
in your compassion,
so that my hands may stretch out in purity
to receive your holy and fearful Body and Blood.
FWIW. I take Communion on the tongue, but do not look at those who do not as Arianists or worse.
Don't try to confuse them with the fact, Colleen. Vatican II is the root of all evil. Anything that was true the day before was set in stone, always done, rock solid tradition, and everything after is the work of the devil.
SD
I'm reading an article "Irish America's Red Brick City: Edwin O'Connor's Boston which details the virtual eclipse of Irish ( and Catholic although that is not the thrust of the article) culture in Boston in the 1960s. Arguably, Boston was at one time the most populous American Catholic city and a couple of lines in this article are intriguing...
"Boston did not welcome Irish Catholics, though the city required their labors. In turn, Irish Catholics battled Yankee-Brahmin Boston, though the immigrants adopted New England values. If Boston's first families reminded the Irish immigrant of their former Anglo-Irish landlords, the Boston Lowells, Cabots and Lodges also served as their models of American propriety and achievement. As though both groups were trapped on an island, rather than crowded onto a peninsula, the Yankee-Celt encounter grew into a grudging marriage of convenience, driven by necessity, often acrimonious, but also not without respect, even love.Though their relations have been characterized by vacillation between separation and integration, Boston has been recomposed and revitalized by this Yankee-Celt passion play. "What is remarkable about the immigrant peoples—not Irish only, but all," writes Thomas N. Brown, "is the readiness with which they have adopted the Yankee past as their own and have become attached to the old places."
I saw this exact thing paralleled in my own staunchly Catholic and Irish family. At this point, most of us are Irish and Catholic in name only and are fully integrated in the secular, Protestant world.
Vatican II had nothing to do with this sad turn of events, as some allege.
You might have a point. I think you should move to England and repent to the Queen. But first, since you claim to be a Texan (in your tagline) you should start a drive to return the Alamo....
A new thread has been posted.
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