And you know the response I get back from the Calvinists here?
Could I have stopped the wreck? After all, I could've prevented him from driving the car, couldn't I?
So I must've wanted him to have the wreck and must've wanted the daughter to get pregnant.
Right?
So if your daughter gets pregnant that child can not part of Gods plan?
Corin does God have any say at all in the affairs of man?
Are you just being deliberately obtuse, or don't you get it? You know very well what I'm saying, and you also know that Calvinists don't believe that God is the originator and author of sin. You know that! You have a hatred in your heart for the Calvinist position that tells me that you've been burned by someone of the Calvinist persuasion, and now you're out to cause any Calvinist you meet as much trouble as you can. Is that what Jesus would do? Your posts back to us drip of hatred and strife. You aren't interested in debating or learning anything, you just want to disrupt. I can't stop you from doing so, but I can point it out when I see it.
And you know the response I get back from the Calvinists here?
Could I have stopped the wreck? After all, I could've prevented him from driving the car, couldn't I?
So I must've wanted him to have the wreck and must've wanted the daughter to get pregnant.
Right?
Wrong!! Here's the answer you get from this Calvinist (assuming that i have correctly understood the post):
Unlike the parents given in the above example, (in blue text), God knows all future events. The parents in the example have no idea or future knowlege of the decisions and actions that their children will make, and the contingencies made by the rest of the "environment" that they will come into contact with. In short good fellow, man is finite, limited in knowlege. There is no way that this situation should have been presented as an anology to the actions and knowlege of an infinite, All-knowing, and all powerful God.
What we are dancing around is the question of the origin of Evil and Sin. All should agree that it did not start with man. Satan rebelled before the Earth was created according to most theologies.
The argument of choice of the creature gets us ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE! How does the creature choose what does not yet exist in the Universe?
This argument of the origin of Evil/sin is the most solid argument AGAINST the existence of one God...it is also the greatest argument for the existence of one God. Of course, to avoid being accused of contradiction, let me state that the two arguments are different relationships.
If God exists, it does not follow that evil must exist, but if evil does exist, THEN God MUST exist! As for how it got here, i don't know, and neither do you. When we walk into That arena, we end up "killing off each other", because it is the fatal flaw to any Monotheistic system.