Posted on 02/24/2003 9:12:32 AM PST by Frumanchu
Then prove me wrong! You've spent all your time attacking others here, let's see you state your beliefs in full, so that we may perform an assessment of your beliefs. At least I have the cajones to state what I believe...do you?
Is that supposed to be clever and witty? Put me down all you want, but leave my son out of it. He is quite able to speak for himself, as you have already found out. In fact he has already shown that you cannot defend your position, and will not do so. And I have just done the same. Either state and defend your position, or be silent.
Mine...BUT a born again man has something an unregenerate man does not have . A choice NOT to sin
You make a smart@$$ comment about your cajones to say what you believe yet your profile says you echo your son's belief. You brought him into it. Not me.
Okay. I believe what my son believes. And, as a testicular cancer survivor it only took me one to say that.
I'm only coming back here to respond to posts. So if I'm tickin' you off, don't ping me.
Look yourself. I had no way of knowing about your bout with cancer, so I apologize if that remark offended you. However, I did not bring my son into this particular discussion, you did. I am not ticked off, just baffled by your incessant demand for Calvinists to explain what you consider to be contradictions, and then refusing to accept the explanations, or to come to terms with the fact that your understanding is flawed concerning Calvinism in particular, and the nature of God's Will, man's will, and the nature of man in general. You defend, or at least seem to believe, a position that we have shown by logic and scripture to be contradictory, flawed, and ultimately Gnostic. This isn't about "winning" an argument, it's about coming to better understanding of God's Word.
Go back to your monitoring of the War...obviously that is more important to you right now...I won't bother you again unless you address me.
Corin did God "want" or "plan" the sin of Judas?
No apology necessary. That's not a sore spot (so to speak).
However, I did not bring my son into this particular discussion, you did.
You made a statement about expressing your beliefs. I read your profile. You've been around here long enough to know that if you post it, it's fair game.
You're right. This argument will be here when the war is over.
Peace.
Of course I did. You said that since you are regenerate you can choose whether or not to sin.
If God doesn't want you to sin, yet He knows you will, why doesn't he take that choice away from the regenerate?
However, I did not bring my son into this particular discussion, you did. should've been italicized.
did you get mail from X?
Check your freepmail.
i thought that particular example might have been used for another purpose, That is why i "hedged" a bit in my comments.
The fact of the matter is that it was never a question of how you or i understood the example, rather how the intended reader of your post did so.
Perhaps i committed a breach of FR ediquette (spell?) when i replied, and apologised for the clarity of somebody else's post. If this is the case, i offer you my apologies for getting tangled up in your feet.
Oh, I'm quite sure he understood it perfectly, but didn't like how it pointed out the fault in his reasoning. It wasn't hard to understand. The fact that several other posters referred to it is proof that it was understood by anyone who read it. That the intended recipient chose not to is his problem.
Hey, we all have stepped on someone else's toes in here, sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. No harm done!
Amazing how no non-Calvinist 'understands' Calvinism.
The problem in understanding Calvinism is that they want anything to mean anything.
Calvin stated very clearly that it was by God's will that Adam sinned, (and Calvin rejected the notion of a permissive will,it was all directive)
I admit that by the will of God all the sons of Adam fell into that state of wretchedness in which they are now involved (Institutes, Book 3, chapter 23)
I guess Calvin himself did not understand Calvinism!
;-)
It sounds like a permissive will since something is happening that God does not desire.
Now, can someone do something that is against God's desire?
If that is the case, then someone could resist God's will to be saved, even though God desires all to be saved (2Pet.3:9)
Exactly.
Ah, yes, ftD returns, and his faithful sidekick is in the amen corner. Reminds me of the two guys in the jail cell with Eddie Murphy in Trading Places. One guy asks all the questions, and the other guy just says "YEAH!"
I see that the same old tired arguments are being raised, despite much having been written to explain and answer said tired arguments. Once again, the idea that someone "could" resist God's desire, even though God supposedly wants "all" to be saved. I have already explained once why the greek word "pas" translated as "all" in this passage does not mean the same thing as our English word "all". Our word "all" is used to mean "every one", and carries the idea that none is left out. The Greek word "pas" carries the idea of "all sorts", "all kinds", and implies the idea of "some". Of course, since the Greek doesn't support their theology, the Arminians ignore it. And, to argue that mere man could resist God's will is a straw man argument. Oh, God will let you sin, but even that is within His Plan, and will result in no good to you. Since Adam fell, man has had the exact opposite problem: He cannot DO what God commands! What is that command? Repent, and believe the Gospel, and you shall be saved. As for God's Will, nothing happens that God has not already known about, and incorporated into His Plan. He isn't waiting to see IF you will do any certain thing, He already knows with absolute certainty that you will do everything that you have done, are doing, and will do, clear to the end of time and beyond. And He knows that with a certainty that you can't even begin to fathom.
You want man's will, his so-called ability to choose (from a morally neutral position, which is patently false), to be the one thing that God must yield to, the one thing that He cannot override without being "unfair". You don't understand God's Soveriegnty, His Omnipotence, or His Omniscience. If you did, you wouldn't argue for such a stupid thing!
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