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To: ultima ratio
Do you believe we are obliged to obey absolutely everything coming out of Rome, even when it contradicts past teachings?

That's part of the deal. It's not like it hasn't happened before.

I hardly think so.

Personal opinion again.

Rome has the obligation to show where it is in line with past Catholic doctrines whenever it introduces novelties. If it cannot do this, it must be disobeyed--especially in the present crisis.

[big sigh] The church moves at glacial speed, you know that. Actually, in the end, in the current context, this is the biggest obstacle. The fixes and repairs aren't happening fast enough for various people. The dissent didn't set in overnight and it's going to take a while to repair the damage. Rather than drastic quick fixes, the church has opted to take the long deliberate route, which is a lot more work, takes ten times longer and lasts far better. Kind of like using carved granite for a facade rather than aluminum siding.

For example, it is making odd noises about the Jews not needing the same redemption as other men. This is novel--and found nowhere in either Scripture nor in Tradition. It must be rejected.

Last I heard, this wasn't official as you've stated it. I thought the talk was on eccumenism. That probably means that there's some discussion going on behind closed doors. We won't know till it's all over.
32 posted on 01/29/2003 8:29:19 AM PST by Desdemona
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To: Desdemona
It's part of no deal. There is no deal to deny the faith. When Bugnini, by means of a weak and unwise pope, foisted his Protestant Mass on the Catholic world, he created an earthquake. Traditionalists might have survived Vatican II with our noses out of joint, but the New Mass was a false worship and had to be rejected. It represents a new religion and a clear denial of Catholic doctrines. You may not think so--but perhaps you need to study the problem more. This is not a minor issue. It is offensive and harmful to the Catholic faith and must be rejected.

Trust in a pope is admirable. But there are limits. True, the statement on the Jews from a papal institute is not finally official--but it reflects clearly the policy and thinking of this papacy which places a heretical ecumenism before Catholic Tradition itself. That is what I find most damnable about Rome's current agenda. It goes about destroying Tradition, but doing so as Cranmer did in England--by subterfuge and suppression. Do you think it will come out and deny the Real Presence? Not on your life--but it won't defend it either and allows apostate bishops to have their way and deny kneeling before communion and the shunting aside of tabernacles. It knows what's happening--and won't lift a pinky to stop it.
34 posted on 01/29/2003 8:42:31 AM PST by ultima ratio
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