Could I ask a serious question of some Mormons? (Please?)

today | me

[Jael]

No man who rejects the testimony of Joseph Smith can enter the kingdom of God"
Doctrines of Salvation, vol. I, p. 190).

My question:
Is that what Mormons believe?
If so, how was anyone saved before 1830.

[RnMomof7]

Harry you do not evenb believe your own scripture..

"And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son" - Jacob 1:15

"But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in commiting whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son. Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord. Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph. Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that his people shall do like unto them of old. Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts...for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts" - Jacob 2:23-28, 33

"For behold, he [King Noah] did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin, and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord. Yea, and they did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness" - Mosiah 11:2

"When thou art come unto the land which the Eternal thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me .... Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away" (Deut. 17:14, 17).

[HarryDunne]

Again, show me one scripture where it says Jacob/Israel was condemned for having more than one wife.

[RnMomof7]

Jacob 23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing awhoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.

24 Behold, David and aSolomon• truly had many wives• and concubines, which thing was cabominable• before me, saith the Lord.

25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a arighteous• branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.

26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any aman among you have save it be bone• cwife; and concubines he shall have none;

Sounds to me like God had a pretty firm opinion

[HarryDunne]

There is no mention of Jacob/Israel in any of those scriptures, which proves my point: God never condemned Jacob/Israel for practicing polygamy.

[RnMomof7]

I love it..I post from your own corrupt writtings and you still deny it...unbelievable...So I assume then you plan on practing plural marriage as it is a requirment for progression per JS...

[HarryDunne]

Are you Mormon-bashing again?

[RnMomof7]

No I am just stating the fact that JS wrote the BOM and said it was an abomination to God and later said it was required for progression..how do you deal with that?

[Wrigley]

Are you surprised?

When someone is spirtually blind, the obvious is lost.

[HarryDunne]

So, whatever question you feel like answering, I'm supposed to answer, but if I ask a question or want to debate a point which you started, you're allowed to change subjects ad nauseam? If this is how you debate, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to pass.

[HarryDunne]

When someone is spirtually blind, the obvious is lost.

I take offense to that and ask that you apologize.

[xzins]

What facts do you offer that prove that you are not spiritually blind?

[HarryDunne]

Hmmm. Good point. Who does have proof? I withdraw my previous post.

[xzins]

Not being spiritually blind would be supported by facts that reasonably document the veracity of your beliefs.

[HarryDunne]

Incorrect.

[Grig]

"No I am just stating the fact that JS wrote the BOM and said it was an abomination to God and later said it was required for progression..how do you deal with that?"

How many times have I pointed you to verse 30 now?

What problem there is isn't with dealing with anything Joseph Smith said or what is in the BoM, it is in dealing with minds so closed that they repeatedly ignore what is said to them. Your attempts to show Jacob/Isreal and David as repenting of polygamy are laughable.

[HarryDunne]

Incorrect because your definition is open to interpretation in that you decide what is reasonable.

[xzins]

It surely isn't incorrect.

Facts about your beliefs will determine if they are reasonably connected to reality or not reasonably connected to reality

The teaching of the resurrection of Jesus, for example, has a reasonable collection of facts demonstrating that the resurrection to be a probable reality.

[xzins]

Of course I do. I must first determine if I AM SPIRITUALLY BLIND as determined by verifiable facts.

It is only then that I can attempt to persuade others as to the legitimacy of those facts.

[RnMomof7]

What problem there is isn't with dealing with anything Joseph Smith said or what is in the BoM, it is in dealing with minds so closed that they repeatedly ignore what is said to them. Your attempts to show Jacob/Isreal and David as repenting of polygamy are laughable.

Grig did not JS pen the BOM? In it does he not relate God calling polygamy an abomination (in the book of jacob yet)...Harry came looking for me ..you are dodging and weaving my friend...do you have an answer?

BTW you have not proved that Jacob took a wife after God took Rachel following His conversion...or that David ever had sexual relations with the women he put away after he repented following the death of his son...

[HarryDunne]

Harry came looking for me ..you are dodging and weaving my friend...do you have an answer?

As if you aren't. There is no proof of God condemning Jacob for practicing polygamy. You couldn't prove it, so you changed the subject, etc. Just concede the point and we can move on.