Posted on 01/03/2003 9:12:05 PM PST by Polycarp
The Lord seems to be doing just fine without Papal tiaras, buskins, and non-essential vestments.
He wore sandals and a tunic.
Well, most Catholics would disagree with you.
In addition, the "language" is what it is. It's always more exotic and mysterious to pray and sing in a language no one understands. But, at the end of the day, walking out of Mass totally non-plussed, but feeling good, is not "meaning". It's "feeling good," which is mediocrity in the extreme.
As I said, if you prefer the Latin liturgy, you should seek it out.
Griping that the NO is not to your liking when you have a choice is like the neurotic who's mad because 2+2 doesn't equal 5.
Ha, ha, Bud. You know very well I was referring to your implication that, because I don't mind receiving from a Eucharistic Minister, I'm denying the Real Presence.
You're such an absolute juvenile.
Do you go to the NO Mass so you can come on here and bellyache?
You are posting like a natural man, Wrig. Easy accusations, not caring about truthfulness.
Tell the truth.
Have a great Sunday!
It would be interesting to compare the LDS data with all of your various organizations written history!
All of you have a field day with the LDS, yet none of you really know what is in your vaults!
We really do love our non-Mormon neighbors even those who are thorns! Thorns are welcome for it helps us to do better as a people!
I happen to know Dr. Stewart and knew of his study back in May. I contacted another acquiantance who worked for the Dallas Morning News who unfortunately couldn't work with it since he was busy with the Roman Catholic scandals. Yes, me, a loyal and faithful Mormon, WANT this news that puts my church in a bad light exposed for all the world to see. My exchange with the reporter in May went as follows:
[snip]As you know, I'm a faithful Mormon, warts and all. However, there's a terrible problem in the LDS Church, an enormous scandal just waiting to be unleashed, and this is regarding its tendency to inflate its membership figures and the continued myth of us being the "fastest growing church in the world." In reality, up to 80% of new members immediately go inactive or leave the church never to return and the actual conversion rate has DECREASED inspite of a near doubling of missionaries and is now vastly smaller than the JW or SDAs. This means the LDS leadership is being dishonest in pretending we're growing rapidly or our primary problem is growth related.I know a reporter of your calibre would thoroughly enjoy being the first reporter to puncture this balloon and start a media broadside to get to the heart of the problem. After all, the LDS Church is supposed to be an example of honesty and integrity - these issues shows its hypocrisy.
Don't forget, every criticism levied against the LDS Church in recent memory (i.e., Salamander Letters, sexual abuse, Molympics) have fallen flat with the church ending up smelling like roses. However, on the ongoing fraud of its inflation of membership and the horrible hemorraging of new members (up to 80%) (also see membership figure discrepancies between LDS figures and national censuses) the Church is blatantly guilty.
An LDS acquiantance of mine has written an article you should find very interesting (http://www.cumorah.com/report.html). Go nuts.
I'm giving you this heads up because I'm sick and tired of the lying and deception perpetuated by the current LDS leadership. I'm a genuine Mormon, only accepting "Whatever is True and Whatever is Right" and won't hesitate to condemn things that are wrong even if it originates from my beloved Church. Current LDS bureaucratic practice is neither true nor honest and I want those guilty of this dishonesty exposed for all the world to see. And yes, you can quote me :-)
And:
> > This is part of a larger story I've been trying to work on for a while: How > many members are there of *any* religious group? None of the numbers offered > -- from any religion I'm aware of -- use methodology that would stand up in > any rigorous setting. LDS may be no less or more guilty that, say, the > Southern Baptists in this regard. I'm not sure what I can do with this at > the moment. I'm up to my ears in Roman Catholic stuff. But I'll save the > info....Actually, the figures of the JW and the SDA are much more accurate. As for determining activity rates, this can easily be accomplished by attending any LDS congregation, count the number of people attending Sacrament (mass) on Sunday, ask the Membership Clerk to show you the number on the membership rolls and determine the percentage of activity. Try getting someone to do the same thing in Mexico or in other coutnries - you'll discover the activity rates are much lower.
I know the RC scandals are rapidly becoming old news in my neck of the woods - I don't know of anyone who still follows the scandals. Perhaps there's greater interest down in your area.
I hope you can do something with the info I supplied - there's definitely a story, and a big one at that - especially given the recent efforts of the LDS Church to polish its image. I realize the LDS leadership and bureaucracy will attempt to silence, intimidate and threaten any Mormon who dares criticize the way the Church is being run - it's happened before. Frankly, I think its better to get the story out and for members like myself to suffer the repercussions later - by then, the cat's out of the bag.
I realize my Church is going to suffer a black eye when this gets out - its opponents, especially the Southern Baptist Convention and other Evangelical churchs are going to have a field day beating us over the head with it. In all honesty, I'm hoping to see the leadership shamed into changing its ways. I know from personal experience the bureaucracy is so entrenched and its directors so protective of their turfs that no amount of good intentions on our part will cause change. Hopefully, this way, things would get better instead of our missionaries offering kids ice cream in exchange for baptising them.
I notified you first, giving you first shot at this. I'll wait a few days in the hopes you'll pick it up or pass in onto a collegue who'll do the expose. If you don't want it, please tell me so I can approach others, especially in the religious publications like the CSM and the like.
Take care,
Ed:-)
I was asked not to pursue other media by Dr. Stewart and I respected his wish. He wanted to update his study and contact the church itself, hoping for the bureaucrats to change without being shamed into doing so. I told him I wish him luck, but I really didn't think they would change and give up their perks. It seems I was right.
Bureaucrats are the same anywhere you go. It doesn't matter what organization or religion, the moment they're entrenched, they fight to the death protecting their turf. And woe befalls those who oppose their policies. The main culprits are the Church Education System which produces the instruction manuals and official literature, and the Missionary Department, which is in charge of the literature and instruction manuals of the missionaries. I know from personal experience just how narrow-minded and protective they are.
Besides, since when does the number of adherents makes a religion the 'True Church'? If it turns out six million people identify themselves as Mormon instead of 11 million, does that make the Church suddenly false? Of course not. I hope this SLT article gets picked up by organizations and people the world over. Hopefully, my church's leaders will be SHAMED into changing their destructive policies (such as minimalist rapid instruction of new converts, deliberate dumbing down of our doctrines, deliberate ignorance of our missionaries).
For another example, a recent LDS Church News article entitled ” Church Fastest Growing in Nation"101 claims that the Glenmary study "shows The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was the fastest-growing faith in the nation during the 1990s." In reality, the Glenmary study found that the LDS Church ranks twenty-third among the 149 participating U.S. faiths in overall growth rate, but first among denominations with over one million adherents. In spite of the fact that the U.S. LDS growth rate is only two-tenths of a percent above the world population growth rate and that the study does not consider activity rates, the ranking of first among U.S. faiths of over a million is still an adequately impressive finding without the need for sensationalization. One cannot doubt that this was an honest misunderstanding on the part of the anonymous Church News reporter, as the same headline that the LDS Church is the "fastest growing" in the U.S. appeared in some secular newspapers also. Yet this points to the need for us to be more careful and accurate in reporting our own growth.
The whole paragraph where the this was pulled from!
For another example, a recent LDS Church News article entitled ” Church Fastest Growing in Nation"101 claims that the Glenmary study "shows The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was the fastest-growing faith in the nation during the 1990s." In reality, the Glenmary study found that the LDS Church ranks twenty-third among the 149 participating U.S. faiths in overall growth rate, but first among denominations with over one million adherents. In spite of the fact that the U.S. LDS growth rate is only two-tenths of a percent above the world population growth rate and that the study does not consider activity rates, the ranking of first among U.S. faiths of over a million is still an adequately impressive finding without the need for sensationalization. One cannot doubt that this was an honest misunderstanding on the part of the anonymous Church News reporter, as the same headline that the LDS Church is the "fastest growing" in the U.S. appeared in some secular newspapers also. Yet this points to the need for us to be more careful and accurate in reporting our own growth.
Never report the who storie that might show parity towards the LDS!
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