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Dr. Judith Reisman, Advises Catholic Church to Sue the Sex Experts for Medical Malpractice
Catholic C itizens of Illinois ^

Posted on 12/30/2002 9:39:02 AM PST by boromeo

Dr. Judith Reisman, Debunker of Kinsey Sex Research, Advises Catholic Church to Sue the Sex Experts for Medical Malpractice

Thursday, December 26, 2002

By Karl Maurer, Vice President

As the sex scandal in the Catholic Church continues to unfold, the most shocking aspect is not so much the abuse itself, but that molester priests were repeatedly given access to children, even after they were known to be child molesters. While the Bishops are in a large part responsible for the sex scandal in the church, there is a growing body of evidence pointing to an enormous fraud perpetrated on the Catholic Church by so-called sex "experts" who consulted to the Bishops and allegedly "treated" sex abuser priests.

What if these "experts", who claimed that child molesting priests could be reformed and then repatriated to their parishes, weren't really experts at all? What if they were quack doctors, who believed there was fundamentally nothing wrong with adult/child sexually contact? What if their so-called treatments never showed success, and in fact were never intended to stop child sexual abuse?

This is the thesis advanced by Dr. Judith Reisman, Ph. D., who believes that the entire field of sexology, established by the notorious Dr. Alfred Kinsey, is a fraud. Dr. Reisman also believes that the so-called treatments given to predator priests in Kinsey inspired therapy sessions were so grossly ineffective, that the Catholic Church and the victims of clerical sexual abuse have a legal claim against these sex clinics for medical malpractice. She is currently consulting with several attorneys regarding class action suits whereby the Catholic laity can seek damages.

Dr. Reisman, Ph.D. visited Chicago in November to discuss these issues and the second edition of her landmark book, Kinsey: Crimes and Consequences at the invitation of Catholic Citizens of Illinois, a lay group founded in 1996 which offers a monthly luncheon and speaker forum open to the public.

After completing her doctorate studies in mass communication in 1980, Dr. Reisman entered an investigation into Dr. Kinsey . In 1998, she published the first edition of Kinsey: Crimes and Consequences, which exposed Dr. Kinsey, for the first time, as an academic fraud and a bi/homosexual responsible for massive child molestation.

Long before the Catholic Church made the headlines for the child abuse scandals, Dr. Alfred Kinsey, the so-called father of the Sexual Revolution, was quietly employing child abusers and homosexuals as researchers. In spite of the fact that Kinsey was a bi/homosexual, criminally responsible for massive child molestation, and an academic fraud, he obtained the financial backing of the notorious Rockefeller Foundation. Kinsey's research was ultimately used to eliminate laws that banned pornography and sexual deviancy in all fifty states. In the process, he ignited the Sexual Revolution of the Sixties. Kinsey was so influential on American culture that in 1989 the National Research Council pronounced that American society could be divided into "Pre- and Post Kinsey" eras.

Dr. Reisman's investigation has revealed that the Institute for Sex Research at Indiana University ("IU"), led by Dr. Kinsey, was responsible for the criminal sexual abuse of over 300 infants and children, the results of which were published in Kinsey's 1948 report on male sexuality. Dr. Reisman also revealed that Kinsey's female 'research' subjects would have included large numbers of prostitutes, the only women willing to candidly discuss their sex lives with him. For his "normal" male subjects, Kinsey used prison inmates, where homosexuality was rampant .

By performing his 'research' on a population on children, and men and women who were totally unrepresentative of the larger U.S. population, Kinsey's results were hopelessly flawed. Not only was Kinsey aware of this fraud, but his financiers at the Rockefeller Foundation were also aware. All parties knew that in the end, the 'research' needed to serve as evidence that sex laws needed to be overturned.

Dr. Reisman opened her lecture by showing a 1998 video "Kinsey's Paedophiles," produced by Britian's Yorkshire Television. The video was based largely on the results of Dr. Reisman's findings and documents the existence of known child abusers on Kinsey's research team, including a Nazi in Germany who had abused imprisoned children during World War Two. As of this time, no public television station in the United States has shown the program, in spite of being sent copies, and in contrast to the openly pro-gay programming frequently aired on public television.

Dr. Reisman noted that, "the members of the Catholic Church have a unique opportunity during this catastrophic challenge to help the entire nation to pull itself out of the very tragic place it has fallen into." In addition to a catastrophic loss of faith within the Church hierarchy, the hidden source of the current child sexual abuse scandal "is the constant stream of immorality in the media and popular culture that has polluted the nation and the Church. The main source of the sexual scandal today is Dr. Kinsey's sexual revolution."

Dr. Reisman pointed out that the media's use of the term ephebophilia to describe the abuse by priests is an intentionally misleading manipulation of language. "The main problem has been priests having sex with boys. Ephebophilia can by definition be heterosexual or homosexual assault. What we see today are almost exclusively homosexual assaults of boys, 'pederasty', and it has a long history. Ephebophilia has no validity in terms of what is taking place in the Catholic Church."

"The idea that homosexuality is not about pederasty and abusing boys is not sustained by the data," said Dr. Reisman. "One of the most notorious lesbian activists, Camille Paglia, noted how ridiculous it is that the American public is being conned into believing homosexuality is not about boys. Maintaining one's youth through the sexual abuse of boys, that is the history of homosexuality going back to the ancient Greeks."

As for the current propaganda alleging children are 'born gay', Dr. Reisman stated, "There are no scientific data confirming children are born homosexual. Historically and cross-culturally, the data confirm the exact opposite, that homosexuality is environmentally created and can be reversed." However, cautioned Dr. Reisman, in cases of pederasty, pedophilia, and other forms of sexual child abuse, there are no data confirming reversal or rehabilitation, as the recent experiences of the Catholic Church have demonstrated.

A publication by the North American Man Boy Love Association, co-found by the notorious Boston child molester Rev. Paul Shanley, cited Kinsey as the father of the pedophile and pederast movements. The article stated , "Gay liberationists in general, and boy lovers in particular, should know Kinsey's work and hold it dear. Implicit in Kinsey is the struggle we fight today."

Dr. Reisman highlighted the recent statements of Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz, who has insisted, "questions should be asked about the clinics and treatment centers used by Bishops, and the faulty counsel by various kinds of sexologists, psychologists and other assorted 'experts' who advised recycling predatory priests."

In response to Bishop Bruskewitz's call, Dr. Reisman has developed a proposal mapping out the legal strategy for suing the "treatment centers" that accepted predatory priests fraudulently promising to rehabilitate them. The report was recently hand delivered to Pope John Paul II. "We have to face the fact," noted Dr. Reisman, "that just as there are closet pederast priests, and even Bishops, there are pederast therapists," and they have been misleading the Church for decades. As of this date, there has been no response from the Vatican regarding Dr. Reisman's proposals.

Dr. Reisman noted that legal precedence for culpability of therapists for fraudulent malpractice has already established by a $5.7 million award in 1984 against one such center, which had established a record for treating and releasing sexual predators who continued to prey on children after they had been allegedly "cured."

Referencing a growing mountain of evidence, Dr. Reisman declared it a well know fact that for decades parish school children, seminarians and priests in the Catholic Church have been counseled and taught using Kinsey's perverted and fraudulently derived theories of sexuality. In fact, "They (seminarians) have been taught the Sexual Attitude Restructuring (SAR) process that was created at the Institute for the Study of Advanced Sexuality in San Francisco, which was founded by Dr. Wardell Pomeroy, Dr. Kinsey's one time lover. Pomeroy who not only endorsed wife-swapping and homosexuality, but has also extolled the virtues of child sex and even bestiality."

We often hear of predatory priests who were "treated in California" and later released. What the media fails to mention is that they were treated at Kinsey based centers where the 'experts' all believe homosexuality is completely natural, and that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with adults who prefer to have sex with children, according to Dr. Reisman.

In fact, notes Dr. Reisman, Kinsey's 'research' was not designed to simply liberate America from outdated and restrictive sexual morality, which is a common misconception. "Kinsey meant to undermine the legal protections for the institution of marriage," writes Reisman in her book, and the legal legacy of Kinsey's efforts is an accelerating desent of our culture into pornography, protected by a perversion of laws governing freedom of speech.

" The "Sex Offenses" section defining "normal sexuality" of The Model Penal Code of the American Law Institute ("ALI") that changed all our sex laws was 100% the work of Dr. Alfred Kinsey," Reisman noted. "The ALI is the educational arm of the American Bar Association ("ABA") which educates our lawyers. If you are being taught fraud in your law school, via Dr. Kinsey, how can one be expected to go into a courtroom and argue effectively?" It was the introduction of Kinsey's sexology 'findings' into major law schools, via the ALI Model Penal Code, that began the process of repealing state laws, according to Dr. Reisman.

Kinseyites in all the top the law schools, according to Dr. Reisman, published law review articles demanding we lighten our allegedly repressive sex laws. "It was a small cabal of lawyers, psychologists, and Kinsey," said Reisman. "These people went about quietly, state by state, creating commission reports on sex that were forwarded to the state legislatures. The legislatures then responded by implementing the ALI/MPC recommendations. Prostitution, "contributing to the delinquency of a minor, sodomy, all of these laws crumbled when Kinsey 's fraudulent data were presented to state lawmakers."

"Kinsey broke down the structures that were put into place in our society to protect children, women, and the family structure," Dr. Reisman observes. " Look at the data regarding sex in the late 1940's. Abortion was illegal and contraception was difficult to obtain, especially for a single person. If what Kinsey was saying about the commonality of co-habitation, sex out of wedlock, prostitution and promiscuity were true, we would have had epidemic rates of "illegitimacy," sexually transmitted diseases , rape, and child sexual abuse. In fact, there were no such epidemics, because nonmarital sexual activity simply did not exist on anywhere near the scale Kinsey claimed.

Dr. Reisman noted, "Kinsey said he found that children were 100% orgasmic, even babies. 96% of our men are male sex offenders, 50% of husbands and 26% of wives were adulterers, and 90% of all single pregnant girls were having abortions… He claimed that the majority of all American men and women were bi-sexual…Which begs the question -- how does he know all this?" Dr. Reisman speculates that Kinsey's Midwestern university credentials were critical in suppressing protest. In her book, Dr. Reisman includes public relations photos and campaigns that were used to give the public the impression that Kinsey was an otherwise normal and serious scholar, and the con worked. "Nobody asked how he knew about the children's orgasms," noted Dr. Reisman, "because it was assumed that Kinsey's university research was scientific, and guess what? It wasn't scientific at all. It was fraud!"

"What's the fallout?" asks Reisman, "Just look around. If law and society say that out of wedlock births are OK and sadomasochism or bestiality are just alternative lifestyles, how can law and society say that any kind of obscenity is wrong? You can't make pornography illegal if its OK for people to be doing anything they want outside of marriage. If that's the case, then why isn't it OK to simply photograph and sell it?"

How does all this relate to the Catholic Church?

"The human sexuality disciples of Alfred Kinsey today counsel the Catholic Church," warned Dr. Reisman. "They train its children as future nuns, priests, brothers and bishops and they are Kinseyans, without question."

Kinsey disciple, Dr. Fred Berlin, from Johns Hopkins University, has been a major advisor to the to the Catholic Church since 1985, when he was identified as an expert in the treatment of pedophiles. Dr. Berlin was recommended to the National Council of Catholic Bishops ("NCCB") in a document known as the Peterson/Doyle Report, which has been cited as a warning of child sexual abuse by Catholic priests that was ignored by the NCCB.

The problem with the report is that it recommended the Bishops turn over all of their problem priests to sexual treatment centers, specifying Johns Hopkins, which was based entirely on the perverted and fraudulent treatment methods of Kinsey. While it is often said that the Bishops did not act on this report, it is clear that indeed they did send pedopriests to these centers for repair, or cures.

Both Dr. Berlin and Dr. John Money had been recommended to the Bishops by the authors of the Peterson/Doyle Report. (Peterson later died of died of AIDS.) Peterson wrote, "Drs. Money and Berlin are considered by me and most people the field as the two U.S. experts (and are) mental health professionals with good success in the treatment of such disorders." According to Dr. Reisman, Berlin and Money are peddling Kinsey's bogus sex science.

Dr. Berlin himself has stated publicly that he would not turn over predatory child molesters to the police. In fact, in1988 the Maryland press reported there were at least 8 men accused of sexually abusing children under the care of Dr. Berlin. "Dr. Berlin has served as a witness for sadistic sex offenders, and has testified in court that such men cannot control their sexual barbarism," observed Dr. Reisman. "But these deviants have no difficulty controlling their lust when they are in front of parents or legal authorities."

Dr. Reisman noted that, "Dr. John Money has written in the Journal of Paedophilia that sex between men and boys is a perfectly viable activity, it's really good for the boys, and he says he would never report a pedophile (to the police). This is the man in charge of training and curing priests!" Dr. Money also claimed that the Johns Hopkins clinic was not created to repair sex offenders but to give "lee-way for judges," as an alternative to jail.

In fact, Peterson's assessment of Money and Berlin's success was false. They had demonstrated no success in 'curing' child abusers. Another Johns Hopkins and Kinsey influenced 'expert' who impacts the Catholic Church is Dr. Paul McHue. Dr, McHue was appointed by United States Conference of Catholic Bishops ("USCCB") leader Bishop Wilton Gregory to the Catholic oversight board responsible for overseeing the implementation of various sexual abuse reforms. His role on the board is stated to have been to provide expert advice on the psychological treatment of clerics accused of sexually abusing children.

In a story critical of Johns Hopkins 'treatment' of pedophile priests, the Maryland press revealed that Dr. Berlin had been subverting the child abuse reporting required by state law with the full approval of his boss, Dr. Paul McHue. Dr. McHue was in charge of the treatment center at Johns Hopkins when Dr. Money was forcing boy patients at Johns Hopkins to engage in incestuous child pornography, which was revealed in the book As Nature Made Him, a book about trans-gendered operations performed at Johns Hopkins.

"I don't want to impugn the Bishops," said Dr. Reisman. "One of the reasons I focus on the Peterson /Doyle report is because I believe that document intentionally mislead the Catholic Church. This document told the Bishops to turn over all of their pederast priests to professionals…(The Peterson/Doyle Report) claimed they could cure the child abusing priests knowing they couldn’t. Whether Father Doyle understood this reality is another question. On the less generous side, just as we have closet pederasts in therapy profession, we have closet pederasts among the bishops. The problem is that these pederast bishops can influence other bishops and as a result, compromise the entire structure. In the end, there's simply no justification for Paul McHue being on an advisory board designed to curb child sexual abuse."

The Peterson/Doyle report also said, quoted Dr. Reisman, that, "the Catholic Church had to get away from its "extreme moral judgmentalism" and the only way was to transfer the sex offenders to specialized clinics, so they could be trained and repatriated. But you can’t very well train and repatriate a pederast priest if you believe that pederasty is OK, can you?"

Kinsey's influence on the Catholic Church is far deeper than the bogus treatment facilities responsible for recycling predator priests. The Kinsey Institute is the curator of the 'science' Kinsey created, and responsible for spreading it. To the extent that Kinsey's views on sex have been nearly universally accepted as truth, they have infiltrated public and private schools, and even been introduced into U.S. seminaries.

In his best selling book, Goodbye Good Men, author Michael Rose records the testimony of dozens of seminarians exposed to radical programs featuring hard core pornography while they were in the seminary. Remarkably, these programs continue in seminaries all over the world. Dr. Reisman contacted Rose after reading his book to make sure Rose was aware that these programs were products of the Kinsey Institute, and specifically, the Sexual Attitude Restructuring (SAR) program. The SAR as shown in Kinsey training centers is a barrage of pornography on multiple screens, which is consistent with the programs described by shocked seminarians. In addition to seminarians, hundreds of orthodox priests who have been adjudged as "too rigid" have been forced to enter SAR programs at indoctrination centers across the country.

Just how has the Sexual Revolution spawned by Kinsey changed our culture? Dr. Reisman cited the statistics recently released by the U.S. Department of Justice. From 1976 to 1999 there has been a 1,311% increase in child sexual abuse. Roughly 400,000 children are prostituted annually in the United States. 67% of all reported sex abuse victims are children, and 34% of those children are under 12 years of age. 64% of all forced sodomy victims are boys under the age of 12 and age 4 is the most common age.

In 1999 the US Department of Justice reported 58,200 cases of non-family child abductions, two thirds reporting sexual abuse. 35% of these kidnappings were of boys, commonly abducted and sexually abused by homosexual men, who represent only 2% of the total population, according to Dr. Reisman.

Dr. Reisman concluded, "The ultimate source of the child sex abuse scandal in the Church can only be understood by studying Alfred Kinsey, the bisexual, pornographically obsessed pederast guru, and his disciples who currently counsel church and secular leaders."

For more information about Dr. Reisman, see www.drjudithreisman.org. To order a copy of Kinsey: Crimes and Consequences, do so at the website or call, The Institute for Media Education at 1-800-476-0975.

Karl Maurer is the President of Aquinas Consulting, CPA's and Management Consultants, and is the Vice President of Catholic Citizens of Illinois (www.catholiccitizens.org). He may be reached at karl@aquinconsult.com.


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholicchurch; clericalabuse; michaeldobbs; sexabusescandal
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To: american colleen
Thanks for posting more of Dr.Reissman's words. She certainly has helped my dot connections.

The USCCB has absolutely no reason to exist,their only function seems to be to thwart Catholic teaching and Vatican directives.

I try to be charitable but the "Citizens Committee on Abuse" was appointed after the bishops knew the peril in which their "Pederast Protection Policy" had placed children,teen-age boys,faithful Catholics and the Church;their selections were unconscionable.

I understand that Bishop Gregory is featured in Time magazine,perhaps we should suggest,via letters to the editor,that the only way the bishops can regain some moral authority and trust is for the USCCB to ask every diocesan newspaper to print the interview with Dr. Reissman in its entirety and then abolish themselves as an act of contrition.Then Catholics in the diocese may become informed about how remiss in their shepherding our bishops generally were.

Bishop Gregory should also be besieged with letters asking for the names of the bishops on the selection committee. I am just sure that Flynn character from St. Paul/Minneapolis was on it.Pray he is not sent to Boston. Someone also indicated Pilarchyk(sp)was on it. I wouldn't doubt that,I have watched him preen around like some queen several times as he slyly turned issues that should have been settled to another USCCB committee to stonewall and sabotage.

More public exposure at every oppurtunity also might wake up the brain dead,brainwashed pew sitters to the danger of these crazy sex education classes they are always trying to get foisted on the school children.

Wouldn't it be refreshing,if in place of their half-a*sed apologies,that usually have nothing to do with anything that is wrong or current but just blah-blah they would tell the truth.Each bishop could cover the interview (with Reissman) with a note saying that they had erred because of lack of knowledge,or whatever,but they want Catholics to recognize that we were all hoodwinked,or as the case may be.

Seems to me that God,Who is Truth gave us a short cut,the Ten Commandments,to follow and make our burden lighter and that every time we forget the transcendent God and apply our little "mangod",fuzzy faith,experential,feeling based moral codes,we experience yet again,that "God's God and we're not".

101 posted on 01/05/2003 5:40:47 PM PST by saradippity
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To: Desdemona
And not even a month later, Bishop Dolan, who was living there, was sent to Milwaulkee.

You went through that story pretty quickly for those of us who don't live in St. Louis and so aren't already familiar with the details. Are you telling us that Bishop Dolan was actually living in the same rectory with these 2 abusive priests? Or just the same city?

102 posted on 01/05/2003 5:41:42 PM PST by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
Are you telling us that Bishop Dolan was actually living in the same rectory with these 2 abusive priests?

Yes. Our Lady of Sorrows. They've been through the wringer. Please, keep this parish in your prayers. Every time one of the stories surfaces, the people there relive the nightmare.
103 posted on 01/05/2003 5:45:55 PM PST by Desdemona
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To: Desdemona; BlackElk
Yes. Our Lady of Sorrows. They've been through the wringer. Please, keep this parish in your prayers.

Wow, this is scary. At Our Lady of Sorrows, the pastor resigns amid scandal. The assistant pastor "comforts" the parishioners in their grief until he too resigns amidst his own scandal. And while this is going on, Bishop Dolan is living in the same parish with these 2 homosexual abusers?

I'm pinging BlackElk because I remember that he was certain that Dolan was going to clean out Milwaukee. I wish my memory was better so I could ping some of our good posters from Wisconsin. Desdemona, if you can remember who are the Catholic Freepers from Wisconsin, please alert them to this information. There were those who were sure that Dolan would be the savior, and there were those who thought that "Bishop Cheesehead Miter" was not setting the right tone for a diocese which had just endured the grueling trial of living under Weakland.

Archbishop Timothy M. Dolan sports the latest episcopal attire, a cheesehead mitre. He donned the Wisconsin wedge during his homily at an outdoor Mass at the Cousins Center Sept. 8.
Archdiocese of Milwaukee

104 posted on 01/05/2003 6:06:42 PM PST by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian; Desdemona; BlackElk; american colleen; eastsider; Romulus; Askel5; livius
Des,can you do a little better on the time and sequencing of the scandal at the parish where archbishop Dolan lived? I read on a Google search piece that he was ordained in St. Louis in August of 2001,he had just returned from a long stint in Rome.He was appointed in Milwaukee only 10 months later.

It seems to me Max is using your post to point out that the archbishop was negligent or remiss.While I was extremely unhappy that he was pretty kind,if not glowing in his recognition of rembert,I am unwilling to cross him off the list of very fine bishops based on 10 months at a rectory with abusers. Even if that is the case although it may be less.Need your help Des!!

As Livius pointed out on another thread,he has come to believe that many of these abusers are sociopaths,whose every work is likely to be a lie,thus they are quite convincing in their stories because they have no conscience,dolan's failing to recognize them would not in itself be unusual.So before this story takes on a life of its own,let us try to get some more facts on the table. ?Thanks.

105 posted on 01/05/2003 7:05:33 PM PST by saradippity
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To: Maximilian; ninenot
I believe ninenot is in the Milwaukee archdiocese.
106 posted on 01/05/2003 7:06:47 PM PST by ELS
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To: saradippity; livius
You may have made the comment on this thread. Whereever you made it,it was on the money!!!
107 posted on 01/05/2003 7:07:46 PM PST by saradippity
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To: saradippity
Speaking of the USCCB, I was watching "World over Live" on Friday night (gosh, I'm remembering a time I would have been embarrassed to admit that!), anyhow, Pat Buchanan and Deal Hudson (my heroes) were on with Raymond Arroyo discussing the year 2002 in review. Deal Hudson made the statement that we need a firm bishop to lead the way and step out of the box but that is difficult because of the "collegiality" of the USCCB. He said the main thing the USCCB has done is to make the bishops rather distrustful of one another and it is hard for one guy to move ahead because the rest are not willing to let someone take the reins... they are always looking behind and beside themselves to make sure no one is getting ahead of them. What they spend most of their time on is writing silly letters and making sure they don't tick anyone off. --- paraphrasing, of course. Anyway, great show and you should see if you can watch the archive of it on the EWTN website. I think it rebroadcasts on Monday mornings at 9 or 10 Eastern time.

I guess it has worked pretty well in a way because someone like Mahony or Weakland didn't and hasn't led the way either. But apparently neither can a Bruskewitz or a George... seems like the USCCB breeds irrelevance and mediocrity.

108 posted on 01/05/2003 7:41:58 PM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen
USCCB breeds irrelevance and mediocrity. A bit like the United States Senate.
109 posted on 01/05/2003 7:48:08 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: saradippity
I'm really disgusted that one of the same idiots who led the bishops into the newspeak feelgood garbage in the 70s and 80s (even I knew that Kinsey stuff was crap back then and I was a kid and not too smart, either) is on the bs "bishops abuse commitee" -- this is all a big black tangled ugly spiderweb.

On a high note, Boston "Catholic" Television has pre-empted 3 hours of EWTN in my area, from 9 AM to 12 Noon. Today I switched it on to find a priest preaching the beauty and technique of "Centering Prayer." He even used the word "mantra" when explaining it. I'm really seeing red over this and I'm going to write a letter to the priest in charge of the programming.

110 posted on 01/05/2003 7:50:04 PM PST by american colleen
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To: RobbyS
Well, what is that old saying about absolute power corrupts absolutely?

If you listen to what the bishops say and what the polititians say (eyes closed) a lot of times you'd be pretty hard pressed to figure out who was the man of God and who was the man of the people.

111 posted on 01/05/2003 7:52:26 PM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen
Both are men of the people. The problem is that the bishops have been lead rather than led. They are guilty of the American love of success. If the archbishop of Boston had come out strong in favor of reformation, he would have been pilloried. Instead he talked like a conservative but did not challenge the powers that be. If law knows Church history, he knows what happened to St. John Chrysostrom.
112 posted on 01/05/2003 8:05:15 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
You are so right, thanks. Yes, Cardinal Law was orthodox in what he said, but not in what he did - that goes for the abuse stuff and also the dissent in the parishes. He would have been pilloried had he been more forceful, that is correct I believe. What is hard to reconcile is how much people love JPII and a Padre Pio and a Mother Theresa but still pillory those who are trying to walk the same walk as the aforementioned while leading their diocese with them.

Human beings are sure screwed up. I can't figure them out.

113 posted on 01/05/2003 8:12:58 PM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen
Plenty of nuns and priests out there who hate the pope. In their eyes he committed the greatest sin of all: he denied them the absolute power they crave.
114 posted on 01/05/2003 8:23:18 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
You are right about the power part (isn't that what we all really want?) but I don't think they hate him. I get the "he's irrelevant" message. He's too old, he's too orthodox, etc., etc. And so they try to dismiss him. Oddly, I hear this from mostly the religious or the ordained. I'll bet it goes for a lot of Cardinals and Bishops as well.

My own parish priest, who I like a lot and pray for a lot, told me last spring that we should pull away from Rome because they don't understand us (as Americans, I'm guessing).

115 posted on 01/05/2003 8:34:31 PM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen
I was thinking about twenty years ago when he was in him prime. Tell your priest that Rome "understands" us all too well.
116 posted on 01/05/2003 8:38:46 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: Maximilian
Max, you misunderstand. Dolan IS one of the good guys.

Campbell, who was the pastor, had a single incident in his past, 13-16 years earlier - with a teenage girl - that wasn't even a crime. It was never eligible for prosecution and when we heard what it was...it was nothing in comparison.

It was the associate, who's activities FIRST surfaced this spring, who was the real problem and the Chancery had no idea until a 10 year old who was a family friend and not in the parish told of the abuse beginning when he was five. This guy pleaded guilty to five counts and is awaiting sentencing. And I hope he gets life at Potosi.

No, Dolan had nothing to do with it. And we miss him terribly.
117 posted on 01/05/2003 9:43:16 PM PST by Desdemona
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To: saradippity
See post #117. Dolan had no knowledge of any of it. And the associate at Sorrows (I Can't remember his name) was/is somewhat of a sociopath. I posted a story in November regarding his status. He's currently in jail. The allegations against him hadn't even been made when this all started last year.

I'll have to think about and post a timeline tomorrow. My parents' parish was one of the first with scandal in the background. That guy, Ross, and Campbell (the pastor at Sorrows) were removed the same day in February.
118 posted on 01/05/2003 9:57:15 PM PST by Desdemona
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To: Desdemona; Maximilian; BlackElk
Thanks Desdemona,happy to learn that. Pinged you Black Elk,since it looked like Max was UR tonight. Max,just be you and don't always be looking to put the worst face on everything Catholic. There's Catholic and catholic New Ordians.
119 posted on 01/05/2003 11:14:33 PM PST by saradippity
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To: american colleen
Notice one of the authors of the 1985 study entreating the bishops to hand over their moral authority to the sexperts who were refusing to turn the abusing priests over to the authorities, was none other than Fr. Tom Doyle, Voice of the Faithful©'s "First Annual Priest of Integrity" award recipient. The other was Fr. Peterson, who later died of aids.

They're good at what they do.

This is very much analogous to the typical radical liberal m.o. used to bring about social change. Find a social problem. Declare it a crisis. Demand immediate action. Propose a "solution," sometimes the same "solution" that gave rise to the problem.

120 posted on 01/06/2003 4:55:44 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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