Posted on 12/26/2002 8:14:38 AM PST by NYer
Roots of Marian Devotion Go Back to Old Testament
ROME, DEC. 25, 2002 (Zenit.org).- Scholar Scott Hahn roundly rejects the idea held by some outside the Church that Catholics, by honoring Mary, somehow detract from God.
"The glories we honor in Mary are merely her own reflections of God's glory," says the author of books such as "Rome Sweet Home" and "Hail, Holy Queen." Here, the one-time Presbyterian minister spells out his ideas.
Q: Why do you say that Catholics should love Mary a lot more than they do?
Hahn: Because God does! And he wants us to love her as much as he does.
At the time of the annunciation, the angel Gabriel prophesied that all generations would call Mary blessed. In our generation, we need to fulfill that prophesy. We need to call her blessed. We need to honor her -- again, because God did.
Jesus himself, as a faithful Jew, kept the Fourth Commandment and
honored his mother. Since Christ is our brother, she is our mother too. Indeed, at the end of John's Gospel, Jesus named her as the mother of all of us beloved disciples. So we too have a duty to honor her.
If we look back into the biblical history of ancient Israel, we discover that the Chosen People always paid homage not only to their king, but also to the mother of the king. The "gebirah," the queen mother, loomed large in the affections of Israelites. And the evangelists are very much aware of this.
In Matthew's Gospel especially, we find Jesus portrayed as the royal Son of David and Mary as queen mother. The Wise Men, for example, traveled far to find the Child King with his mother.
We find the mother of the Son of David portrayed in a similar way in the Book of Revelation, Chapter 12. There she is shown to be crowned with 12 stars, for the 12 tribes of Israel. The New Testament writers, you see, were careful to show us Mary's important place in the kingdom, and how we should love and honor her.
In my personal life, I've found the Blessed Mother to be a great intercessor, as she was at the wedding feast in Cana.
Why should we love Mary more? Because of God's grace -- she exemplifies it! Because of God's Word -- she teaches it! And because she is God's masterpiece. The Scriptures provide too many reasons to love her; I couldn't list them in so short a space.
Q: What are the main objections that non-Catholics present against Marian doctrine and devotion?
Hahn: Some non-Catholics believe that, by honoring Mary, we're somehow detracting from God. We're not. The glories we honor in Mary are merely her own reflections of God's glory.
St. Bonaventure put it very well when he said that God created all things not to increase his glory, but to show it forth and to share it. Mary's sinlessness itself was a grace from God.
St. Augustine said: When God rewards us for our labors, he is only crowning his work in us. When God exalted the lowly virgin of Nazareth, he was crowning the greatest of his creations. When we honor Mary, we recognize God's work, and we praise him.
Others object to the Church's dogma of the immaculate conception -- that Mary was without sin from the very first moment of her life. They claim that, if this were true, she would have no need of a redeemer, no need for Jesus. But that's not true. Mary's immaculate conception was itself a fruit of Jesus' redemption.
Even today, we can see that Christ saves some people by deliverance and others by preservation -- some turn away from a life of crime, others are preserved from it by their good upbringing. Mary was preserved by a singular grace. Mary, you see, is dependent upon God for everything. She, by her own admission, is his handmaid.
Some very misguided people try to claim that Catholics make a goddess of the Blessed Virgin. But that is an abominable fiction. As much as we exalt Mary above our own sinful selves, we recognize that she is more like us than she is like God. She is still a creature, though a most wonderful creature. God himself exalted her to show us both the greatness of our human nature and the all-surpassing greatness of divine grace.
Even the early Protestant reformers never called for a wholesale rejection of the Marian dogmas. Luther and Calvin believed, for example, in Mary's perpetual virginity. Luther even believed in the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception, centuries before the Church solemnly defined it. Not until later generations would Christians come to such a far-reaching rejection of Mary's place in salvation history.
Q: How does Mary help us to understand the mystery of Christmas?
Hahn: Well, it's impossible for us to imagine the Christmas story without her. Her consent, her "yes," made that day possible. When God became man, he was born of a woman, born under the law. Christ is at the center of Christmas, but he chose not to be alone at the center. As a baby, he needed a mother to hold him. If we choose to ignore the mother, we can't see the Child.
In the stories leading up to Christmas, we encounter Mary as the model disciple. God found her humility irresistible, and we have to imitate her. God empowered her to love his Son as much as he deserves to be loved. And so we imitate her in that as well. Mary helps us to understand the mystery of Christmas because she received the greatest Christmas present ever, and she gave it to the world, just as we should.
Q: Why do you most converts to Catholicism have such an intense devotion to the Blessed Virgin?
Hahn: I can only speak for myself. I discovered the Catholic Church as not only the family of God, but as my family too. Mary is not only the mother of Jesus, but my mother too.
That's a wonderful discovery to make so late in one's life. So maybe we're making up for lost time! Or maybe we have a special affection for the practices that are distinctive to the ancient Christian faith -- the practices that we missed in our own upbringing.
As you know, the Catechism is not the only teaching of the church. Catholic belief about the salvation of non-Catholics has evolved over the past century. At the same time, though, Catholics hold that the teaching hasn't changed. I daresay that John Paul II would view the matter differently than Boniface VIII.
The Catholic Church considers all validly baptized Christians to be members of Christ's Church.
As far as Boniface VIII is concerned, I'm certain that he would have felt differently than John Paul II. But neither Pope has the authority nor claimed to have the authority to place individual souls in Hell.
1Cr 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1Cr 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
Just as my salvation was not a work I do not keep it because of works..it is grace from start to finish
Jesus said he did not come for the righteous but for sinners..He is the "Author and finisher" of my salvation I am not
So the question is Why would I ,a saved person ,want to read Harry Potter?? When the desire of my heart is to be pleasing to God ?
So we are more and more conformed to His image..not by our works of righteouness..but by His grace . That is the liberty of the believer
2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
You are very correct Angelo..there was no eternal truth there...I remember when you were forbidden from setting foot in a protestant church..today the pope kisses the Koran and says the sacrifices of Jews are just another way to get to heaven...It ain't your daddies Catholic church
What is the authority?
Catholic belief about the salvation of non-Catholics has evolved over the past century.
The plan of salvation has never changed. By what authority could any human change what God Himself ordained?
At the same time, though, Catholics hold that the teaching hasn't changed. I daresay that John Paul II would view the matter differently than Boniface VIII.
A very interesting problem then.
Thanks for your reply. But of course, the answer from the CC still stands. The RCC teaches that I am not saved. They also teach that Jews are not.
But hey! Sing ho for the life of a Muslim! They are in first place for salvation even though they do not believe in Christ.
You have got to admit that is totally at odds with anything God ever said.
Muslims are not baptized.Yet Rome affords salvation to them.
An unbelieving baby is not properly baptized.
A baptism does not make me a member of a Roman Catholic Church. The CC says I am outside the church.
THAT is a proper baptism.
(2) If you have been properly baptized not even a Pope can put you outside the Church. The most he can do is deny you the other sacraments as a form of discipline.
(3) When you say something like:
But hey! Sing ho for the life of a Muslim! They are in first place for salvation even though they do not believe in Christ.
I know that you're merely trying to score verbal points and not discussing these matters seriously.
Despite angelo's cavilling, the Catechism is, and I quote, "a sure norm of Catholic doctrine" promulgated to the entire Church by the Pope.
The Catechism DOES NOT teach that Protestants are going to Hell. It DOES NOT teach that Muslims are saved, either.
The Catechism contains a full discussion of what the Catholic Church understands the nature of the Church and membership in it to be. You have ignored that fact and chosen to define the word Church and the sacrament of baptism according to your own personal theories and then superimposed your ideas on what the Church teaches.
I have argued endlessly with those who think they can pick-up Ludwig Ott's "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" or Denziger's "Sources of Catholic Dogma" and engage in casuistry as to individuals and/or entire groups.
One can read Catholic Church Fathers (St. Basil? I am doing this from memory. I am not at home with my books), in a Funereal encomium assure the mourners the deceased WAS in Heaven do to their desire for Baptism; ergo, Saved outside the Church.
The Council of Trent, speaking of adult Catechumens (unBaptised, ergo, EENS) not needing to be Baptised immediately because even if they died their desire would suffice unto righteousness.
The 1962 Roman Missal (DANG, my memory is sharp today) for January 23rd has the Feast of St. Emerentiana who was martyred while a Catechumen; ergo, outside the Church.
So, the Christian Doctrine of EENS is complicated and far too few Christians understand it<>
Honest question. I was always under the impression that this is what the RCC teaches, but I am not sure if it is in the catechism or not.
Becky
"The Church obliges the faithful to take part in the Divine Liturgy on Sundays and feast days and, prepared by the sacrament of Reconciliation, to receive the Eucharist at least once a year, if possible during the Easter season. But the Church strongly encourages the faithful to receive the holy Eucharist on Sundays and feast days, or more often still, even daily."
All Catholics must receive communion at least once a year and, generally, one probably needs to confess one's sins before doing so.
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day
You are wrong, see?
(2) If you have been properly baptized not even a Pope can put you outside the Church. The most he can do is deny you the other sacraments as a form of discipline.
I am not in the Roman Church. I am in the Body of Christ.Besides, the sacraments don't save you.
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
The RCC teaches that there is no other church whereby I must be saved.
"845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation."
God however says something very different. Through Christ alone is salvation.
Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
(3) When you say something like:
"But hey! Sing ho for the life of a Muslim! They are in first place for salvation even though they do not believe in Christ."
I know that you're merely trying to score verbal points and not discussing these matters seriously.
You are wrong again. I take it very seriously that anyone would trust something (The RCC) for their eternal soul which actually affords salvation to a Muslim.
That is mindboggling to me, that in all honesty you could for one minute trust your soul to any church teaching such heresy.
Despite angelo's cavilling, the Catechism is, and I quote, "a sure norm of Catholic doctrine" promulgated to the entire Church by the Pope.
Thanks for admitting it you believe what it says. But it isn't doctrinally correct. You should not trust your soul to that.
The Catechism DOES NOT teach that Protestants are going to Hell.
I am not a Prot, but it teaches that I am not saved. I have posted the proof from the CC, which you claim is sure. You are now at odds with your own belief.
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. 336
It DOES NOT teach that Muslims are saved, either.
Yes it does.
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
The Catechism contains a full discussion of what the Catholic Church understands the nature of the Church and membership in it to be. You have ignored that fact and chosen to define the word Church and the sacrament of baptism according to your own personal theories and then superimposed your ideas on what the Church teaches.
Au contraire!!!! I have posted what the RCC says. You deny it, but it is here in black and white.
CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.
CANON XII.-If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema.
CANON XIII.-If any one saith, that it is necessary for every one, for the obtaining the remission of sins, that he believe for certain, and without any wavering arising from his own infirmity and disposition, that his sins are forgiven him; let him be anathema.
CANON XIX.-If any one saith, that nothing besides faith is commanded in the Gospel; that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor prohibited, but free; or, that the ten commandments nowise appertain to Christians; let him be anathema.
Becky
2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
6 ¶I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
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