Posted on 12/26/2002 8:14:38 AM PST by NYer
As I said, you are free to believe whatever you want. I posted those links for those who might be interested in a less credulous look at the subject.
Your comments on the tilma remind me of something I posted on The Neverending Story last week about the Shroud of Turin.
30627 posted on 12/26/2002 4:31 PM CST by angelo
To: RobbyS; OLD REGGIE
Here is an example. Some claim to see Roman coins over the eyes in this image. Some claim even to be able to read the date inscribed on the coins.
Here is one person's response to this:
Barrie Schwortz, an official photographer for STURP (Shroud of Turin Research Project), disagrees with the identity of the coins. Having studied numerous high quality negatives of the Shroud made in 1978, he concludes:
My personal opinion, based on my photographic experience and my close examination of the Shroud itself, is that the weave of the cloth is far too coarse to resolve the rather subtle and very tiny inscription on a dime sized ancient coin...What he (Filas) saw as inscriptions, I saw as random shapes and noise. Such is the subjective nature of image analysis. For these reasons however, I cannot accept these coin "inscriptions" as viable evidence of a first century Shroud "date"...I do not argue that there appears to be something on the eyes of the man of the Shroud, and it may well be coins or potshards, since they were used in some first century burial rituals, but I do not believe we can resolve coin inscriptions.http://www.shroudstory.com/coins.htm
LOL, only seems fair. ;o)
Me too..but actually the EOs have a unique doctrine on oneness with God that is actually very non cultish...I have read it a couple of times and although we may have a different take on it they are not in the line of the Mormons or Armstrongs
Knowing is not the same as believing ..even the demons KNOW
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble
I believe Mary was a holy, humble woman ..a model of true submission..I can love and respect her without attributing to her the qualities of God cap
Luke 11:27-28 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and siad unto him. Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it.
In the notes in my bible, KJV, Yea can also be translated "More then that"
Does this verse say anything to you about how Mary should be view?
Becky
LOL. That is a favorite in our home. We often make use of it to demonstrate a firm committment to something. "Pearls, pearls, PEARLS!!"
With thanks to Rnmom for her wonderful open mind and love of other Christians.
"It is fascinating to observe the total absence of the doctrine of justification by faith in large segments of Orthodox history and theology. Instead, the idea of theosis or "deification" takes center stage. The startling aphorismattributed to many early church fathers, including the champion of trinitarianism, Athanasiussummed it up well: "God became man so that men might become gods."
In fact, theosis enjoys the support of Scripture, as in 2 Peter 1:4: "[God] has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature ." Put another way, the Son of God descended and became a man, that we humans might ascend and become like Christ. The legal framework for understanding the work of Christ is played down and our mystical union with God is emphasized.
But what does it mean to "become God"? First, Orthodoxy categorically repudiates any hint of pantheism; theosis does not mean the essence of our human nature is lost. Rather, theosis speaks to believers' real, genuine, and mystical union with God whereby we become more and more like Christ and move from corruption to immortality. As we avail ourselves of God's grace and live lives of spiritual vigilance, we hope for what Maximus the Confessor (580-662) described as the "glorious attainment of likeness to God, insofar as this is possible with man."
I don't think this. Sorry if that is what it seemed to imply.
My intrepratation is that believers are as blessed as Mary. That Mary is not more blessed then any other person in Jesus' eyes.
Becky
For your information Einstein a parody closely imitates the one you're trying to ridicule. I've never seen anyone on these threads that match your imitation.
What you did was to take a group of people that you feel are below you and play on their handicap as a means for cheap laughs. It would come as no surprise that someone ignorant enough to do this would be to stupid to realize what they've done. The people that laughed at your sick attempt at humor are just as ignorant and stupid as you are.
Why didn't you do your so called parody in black street slang? Think of the laughs ebonics would get. To much of a coward to face the consequences of that?
Jesus loves those "hillbillies" They're welcome in His Kingdom. Maybe you should add that thought as one of your mysteries to meditate on next time you piously finger your prayer beads.
"Your cute little last comment is typical of the attitude I parodied: you sanctimoniously wrap yourself in a cloak of righteousness and take it upon yourself to exclude all Catholics (not just annoying old me) from Christian fellowship"
You missed the point. I never said all catholics. The point was that you would be repulsive in any denomination.
Tell us what those powers are. Is she omnipotent, omniscience, or omnipresent? She would have to be one of the above to be able to hear all prayers at all times.
If you can't answer this conclusively then it would appear that her mediatrix ability is a deduction of your theology...
I have been told, point blank, that Mary was just a sinner like everybody else and only a randomly chosen recptacle for Christ's birth.
I have been told by a poster that he didn't read the article he was criticizing because there was no need to read anything by a Catholic since it was, for that reason alone, automatically wrong.
I have been told by a poster that since the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible no Christian should use it to describe God.
I have been told incessantly that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon by many, many posters.
I have had the "Bible Codes" quoted to me as a proxy for Biblical prophecy on various aoccasions by people who claimed I was superstitious.
I have been told that the "Bible Codes" show that there is no such thing as the Catholic Church.
I have been told that Kennedy was assassinated by Jesuits because he refused to go along with some mythical Vatican plot.
And I have been told that refusing to accept certain premises as givens (i.e. that the deuterocanon is apocryphal) means that I have rejected an obvious truism.
Jesus loves those "hillbillies" They're welcome in His Kingdom.
The ones who accept Catholics as brothers in Christ certainly are.
Why didn't you do your so called parody in black street slang?
Because I wasn't parodying Khalid Muhammad.
You missed the point. I never said all catholics.
Now here's a misleading statement. Let's look at what you said:
I'm glad you're Catholic. I would hate to have to defend such a bigot as a brother in the Lord.
That is, since Catholics aren't my brothers in Christ, it's a good thing this evil guy called wideawake is one of them. That way I don't have to defend his wicked, wicked ways.
The fact is, Joshua, there are a good number of people on these boards - like berned or Chancellor Palpatine for example - who routinely use the nastiest language against Catholics imaginable.
Yet - and I find this to be most interesting - when I playact at saying the things they say for real, you get upset. Not when they actually say them.
I've never seen you post to a Protestant who is calling the Pope an antichrist something along the lines of "Hey buddy, back off. They may be wrong - but you shouldn't throw around language like that."
Selective indignation. Not all that convincing.
To people who said "Witchcraft is not real" I said "Go ask one."
So stop being intentionally deceptive.
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