Posted on 12/22/2002 1:05:12 PM PST by Scupoli
The Rosary consists of the Apostle's Creed, which is a statement of Christian belief, the Lord's prayer, which was uttered by Jesus in Luke 11:2-4, the Glory Be, which is a prayer that glorifies the Trinity, the Hail Mary, and the Mysteries.
The Hail Mary and the Mysteries are probably the two parts that are the most misunderstood by non-Catholics. However, they are both very scriptural. In Psalm 143:5 we read, "I remember the days of old, I meditate on all that thou hast done, I muse on what thy hands have wrought." Thirteen of the fifteen Mysteries are meditations on the life, passion and death of Jesus Christ.
As for the Hail Mary, we begin by recognizing the uniqueness of Mary: "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee." In doing this we are not exaggerating, as we use the words of God as spoken by the angel Gabriel in Luke 1:28. Next we utter the first recorded words of praise for Jesus in the New Testament. They come from Luke 1:42. Mary has gone to visit her cousin Elizabeth. Upon her arrival, Elizabeth proclaims, "Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb" (Jesus). Finally we ask Mary's intercession. In short, we address Mary as God does, we praise Jesus, and we ask Mary to pray for and with us.
That those in heaven are connected to us is illustrated in 1 Corinthians 12:26: "If one member suffers, all suffer together; If one member is honored, all rejoice together." And in Romans 12:5: "So we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another." Does Jesus have one body in heaven and one body on earth? Of course not, and that is why 1 Timothy 2:1 applies to all members of the body, "That supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all men."
Consider Revelation 5:8 where heavenly intercession is spoken of: "The four living creatures and the twenty four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." The word "saints" refers to believers. In Revelation 8:3-4 we see the same thing, "Another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne. And the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God." So the prayers of the saints are identified as incense, and an angel is adding incense (his prayers) to that which the saints have offered and then he offers it all up to God.
In 2 Maccabees 4:34 Onias the High Priest is murdered. Later, in 15:11-16, we are told that he appeared in a vision to Judas Maccabeus along with the prophet Jeremiah, who had died centuries earlier. In verse 14 we learn that the saints in heaven can and do pray for those of us still on earth. "And Onias spoke, saying, 'This is a man who loves the brethren and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah the prophet of God.'"
Because the Rosary is repetitious, Matthew 6:7 is often used in an attempt to refute it. The KJV words it this way: "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do, for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." Jesus did not condemn repetition-He condemned vain repetition. "Praise God" or "Amen" can be vain repetition if not said from the heart. Was Paul wrong in telling the Ephesians to "Address one another [in] psalms and hymns and spiritual songs" (5:19)? Are we to believe that psalms can only be recited once and that songs can only be sung once? Did God violate his own principals in Psalm 150, when in a short span of six verses we read "praise the Lord," "praise God" or "praise him" thirteen times (150:1-6)? Of course not! Look at verses 5-6 of Matthew 6. Here Jesus seems to be condemning praying aloud in public. However, a close examination reveals that He is not condemning public prayer but hypocritical public prayer. Likewise, in verse 7, He does not condemn repetitious prayer but hypocritical repetitious prayer.
It is interesting to get other perspectives but in the end that’s the response you typically get. But then we have the posters who blatantly declare Catholics aren’t Christians. I can’t let that kind of stuff go without a comment.
So I can mend the error of my ways, which Church has got it right?
Why must you ruin your otherwise charitable sentiment with this line?
I don't hate Catholics and I am not bitter. I DISAGREE with the Catholic interpretation of Christianity and I am interested in discussing our differences. I would hope we could all teach and learn from each other.
If you mean that we will err to the side of mercy in regard to our "separated brethren", you may be right. I only wish they (some non-Catholic Christians) were likewise disposed.
I certainly have not said that and will not. I won't say that Catholics, or Muslims, or Scientologists, or Mormons, etc. are going to Hell.
I will say that I do not find what they are practicing to be consistent with what the Bible says.
It would be more accurate if you said ;
“I will say that I do not find what they are practicing to be consistent with what I think the Bible says.
So which Church has it right?
Agreed. So where do you attend Church?
I'm glad you asked that!
My answer: "I have no idea. And I really don't care." The Bible never relates salvation and Church membership.
From Acts 17:
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
God considered the Bereans to be noble (something I would love for Him to think about me!) because they searched the scriptures to verify things for themselves.
Church attendence is important as it provides supportive friends. From Hebrews 10:
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
OK. I was recently on a thread that this was discussed and asked a question that never got answered so I’ll try it again.
If what you say is true, then why didn't a Church emerge from the NT that is still with us today that holds your same views? I would think that Truth would not have been withheld from the faithful for 1500+ years.
Otherwise known as the Gospel According to Me.
Pope Pius XII's Prayer to Our Lady of Good Counsel
Holy Virgin, moved by the painful uncertainty we experience in seeking and acquiring the TRUE and the GOOD, we cast ourselves at Thy feet and invoke Thee under the sweet title of MOTHER OF GOOD COUNSEL. We beseech Thee: come to our aid at this moment in our worldly sojourn when the twin darknesses of error and of evil plot our ruin by leading minds and hearts astray.
Seat of Wisdom and Star of the Sea, enlighten the victims of doubt and of error so that they may not be seduced by evil masquerading as good; strengthen them against the hostile and corrupting forces of passion and of sin.
Mother of Good Counsel, obtain for us from Thy Divine Son the love of virtue and the strength to choose, in doubtful and difficult situations, the course agreeable to our salvation. Supported by Thy hand we shall thus journey without harm along the paths taught us by the word and example of Jesus our Saviour, following the Sun of Truth and Justice in freedom and safety across the battlefield of life under the guidance of Thy maternal Star, until we come at length to the harbour of salvation to enjoy with Thee unalloyed and everlasting Peace.
So it would be accurate to say you are a non practicing Catholic but rather a non denominational Christian?
I can accept that slight modification.
Whose thoughts should I trust more than my own?
Every priest, orgainzation,... has some motive in his interpretation. Is the Catholic Church not an incredible rich and powerful organization. Is maintaining it's status not even possibly a motivation to interpret things in a certain way. It would be absurd to claim that there have not been instances of abuse of power by the Catholic hierarchy.
I know my heart and my motives. Whose brain should I trust over the one God gave me. I return to Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Well I'm not sure what that means but like you stated, only God knows your heart.
Peace be with you
I reject the notion that God's truth is dependent on some minimum number of humans believing and espousing it.
Do you claim that there are few or no people who believe the passages of the Bible that I quoted?
Even Christ said that most people will get it wrong. (i.e. Matthew 7:)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
He was talking about "Christians" here. Not the world.
Catholics make up about half of the "Christian" world. How could half possible make up the "few" that find the right path and the other half (non-Catholics) make up "many there be which go in" the gate to destruction.
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