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To: T. P. Pole
***The passage in Luke shows us that in at least one case, a feeling of a "heart burn" (or a burning bosom) accompanies an experience of realization that prophecy has been fulfilled in the resurrection of Christ. Is that acceptable? ***

Yep.

***LDS would expand that (using the references in John) to a realization of all truth, including the BoM, as well as other things, including non-religious truth, such as answers to prayers. You seem to be stuck on the BoM part of this, but we feel it deals with all truth.***

But LDS place the BoM, PGP, D&C in principle on a par with Scripture and in practice ahead of the Bible. This is a whole different matter than the answer to prayers or whether 2+2=4. At the same time they say the Bible is the Word of God as far as the KJV is translated accurately. Then they argue that since we don't have the original manuscripts we can not know if any of it is translated accurately. See, TPP, I find in reality anything in the Bible can be swept aside by LDS folk yet the BoM and PGP & D&C are guaranteed by Joe & Brigham's prophetic office. This is not a biblical religion in reality. It only appears to be such to the LDS believer and the naive.

***Did I state the first to your satisfaction? [Yep.] Can you accept that we believe the second, without being forced to believe it yourself? [Yep.] Can you also accept that we are using Bible verses to support our belief, even if you disagree with the conclusion? [Nope, see above. You are misusing the Bible and abusing the Bible itself.]
552 posted on 12/30/2002 1:22:34 PM PST by drstevej
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To: drstevej
***Did I state the first to your satisfaction? [Yep.] Can you accept that we believe the second, without being forced to believe it yourself? [Yep.] Can you also accept that we are using Bible verses to support our belief, even if you disagree with the conclusion? [Nope, see above[below]. You are misusing the Bible and abusing the Bible itself.]

Hey, we are making good progress. Thanks for the agreements.

Let's talk about the third issue.

But LDS place the BoM, PGP, D&C in principle on a par with Scripture and in practice ahead of the Bible. This is a whole different matter than the answer to prayers or whether 2+2=4. At the same time they say the Bible is the Word of God as far as the KJV is translated accurately. Then they argue that since we don't have the original manuscripts we can not know if any of it is translated accurately. See, TPP, I find in reality anything in the Bible can be swept aside by LDS folk yet the BoM and PGP & D&C are guaranteed by Joe & Brigham's prophetic office. This is not a biblical religion in reality. It only appears to be such to the LDS believer and the naive.

I agree with you that LDS use the BoM, PGP, and D&C on a par with (and in many ways ahead of) the Bible. But that is not the question on the table right now.

This is: using the Bible, and only the Bible, would you agree with the premise at hand - that I have pointed out several passages that could support the concept of the Holy Spirit using a burning heart/bosom to testify of truth?

We LDS would certainly point out that our other scriptures can clarify the issue, and the passage in D&C 9 does this, as well as Moroni 10:5. And I would understand your objection if I did bring that into the discussion, considering the objection noted above. However, I am not using these other sources. All I doing is using the Bible.

I think these last questions are really the issue: What if an "accepted" Christian presented this idea? Would it be handled differently? Is the real problem here the fact that it is a LDS that is asking?

And if that is the case, what does that say about any of our other discussion threads on LDS issues?

564 posted on 12/30/2002 4:47:57 PM PST by T. P. Pole
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