Posted on 10/29/2002 11:06:07 AM PST by NYer
I would state this way: We believe all doctrines that are found in Scripture are true, those not found in Scripture could possibly be true, but are irrelevant because God didn't think them important enough to be included, and if not true are dangerous to one's soul and spirit.
Was Christ's promise denied until Luther decided that he was the Pope?
I was raised as an Epicopalian and as such I had to learn the Nicene Creed and recite it to the Bishop whan I was 12 years old. The words "one Holy and Apostolic Church came back to me after I had fallen away into what passes for Christianity in todays liberal society. Namely, I said that I believed in Jesus, and the Lords prayer, and that wa enough. In other words I had decided that I was the authority and Christ was all I needed. I set myself up as the judge of all things and pretended to hide behind Jesus.
But the Church has always been the Body of Christ.
Even Paul, one of the greatest sinners and creators of error through his persecution of the Church, was forgiven when he realized that it was Jesus that he wounded.
If you have a problem with members of your family is it fruitful to go start a new one? I say no, love demands that you amend the family that is yours. Therefore, pretending that your Church is illegitimate is wrong, it is like declaring your marriage with it's five children and your parents and grandparents as void because they have sinned.
This is the issue with us Protestants; do we want a church of saints, or can we tolerate a church of sinners?
In Mt 28:19, Jesus said:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations ... teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."
Did Jesus intended us to teach all, or only part, of what He has commanded us?
No? Jesus didn't instruct us to do a certain thing in order enter the kingdom of heaven? Jn 6:53 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life."
How about this passage?
In Mt 7:21 "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Is Jesus saying that we have to do something to get into heaven?
Being the Messiah, Jesus, the Jew, the foretold 'seed' of Eve, descendant of Noah's son Shem, son of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, promised One of Moses, of the line of David, is the culmination and crowning glory of all that is Jewish.
FReegards, .30.
It's all included in Scripture.
Since Peter clearly is the original spokesperson for the Jerusalem church, and the church in Jerusalem is clearly the location first chosen by Jesus himself, and since Jerusalem is the original patriarchate, the Christian Jews would be far better off renewing/reinvigorating/reinstituting the Church of Jerusalem. All of the early churches looked to the Jerusalem Church as the lead.
IMHO, of course.
Yet, you all disagree with one another and you all claim the Holy Spirit leads you to a sure understanding of Scripture. Of course, were that true, that would make the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity the author of division...but, hey, no matter...what is important is to maintain the Oral Traditions of the 16th Century Heretics because they all were opponents of the Catholic Church, and opposition to her is your sole source of Unity. Enjoy...<>
No? Jesus didn't instruct us to do a certain thing in order enter the kingdom of heaven?Jn 6:53 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life."... as JESUS later explained to His disciples, concerning this and other similar statements, all contained within the John 6 passage ...
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profitteth nothing; the words that I speak unto you, ... they are spirit, and they are life.For a further exposition, see ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/777853/posts?page=126#126
How about this passage?
Mt 7:21 "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."Is Jesus saying that we have to do something to get into heaven?
To answer this, I direct you to the following citation from the John 6 passage ...
John 6:28 Then said they unto Him, ... "What shall we do, that we might we might work the works of God ?"29 JESUS answered and said unto them, ... "This is the work of God, ... that you believe on Him whom He hath sent."
You should read "The Mass of the early Christians" by Mike Aquilina. It's a real eye opener because the Catholic Mass today is almost an exact duplicate of the Mass of almost 2000 years ago, something I did not realize. I read this book and checked out some of the writings of the disciples of the Apostles and then read Revelations again - do that and then attend a Catholic Mass... you will not be able to truthfully ever say "Your denomination and it's beliefs came into being centuries later..." because you will understand, through research and prayer and knowledge, that the Catholic Church is not a denomination.
What did the first Christians believe about the Eucharist?
How did they follow Jesus' command "Do this in remembrance of me?
How did they celebrate the Lord's Day?
What would they recognize in today's Mass?
The answers may surprise you.
In The Mass of the Early Christians, author Mike Aquilina reveals the Chruch's most ancient Eucharistic beliefs and practices. Using the words of the early Christians themselves - from many documents and inscriptions - Aquilina traces the Mass's history from Jesus' lifetime through the fourth century. The Mass stood at the center of the Chruch's life, evident in the Scriptures as well as the earliest Christian sermons, letters, artwork, tombstones, and architecture. Even the pagans bore witness to the Mass in the records of their persecutions.
In theses legacies from the early Church, you'll hear and "taste and see" the same worship Catholics know today: the altar, the priests, the chalice of wine, the bread, the Sign of the Cross ... the "Lord, have mercy" ... the "Holy, holy, holy" ... and the Communion.
You'll see vivdly how Jesus followed through on his promise to be with us always, until the end of time.
"The Mass we know on Sunday -- the Mass you encounter in this book -- is where Tradition lives, where the Chruch's memory reigns 'in the Spirit.' Read this book, then, and remember." - Scott Hahn, Professor of Scripture and Theoloty, Franciscan University of Steubenville
"Aquilina is to be congratulated for making these texts accessible to a new and wide-ranging audience, allowing us to echo the cry voiced by the martyrs of North Africa in the third century: "We cannot live without the Mass!"
If I understand, you believe that only doctrines found in Scripture are true, is that correct?Actually, ... the only necessary doctrines are found in Scripture.
... you all disagree with one another and you all claim the Holy Spirit leads you to a sure understanding of Scripture. Of course, were that true, that would make the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity the author of division...The early church contended over doctrines on a consistent basis, ... beginning in the New Testament. Why would things be ant different today ?
Yes. But there is the problem of interpretation... and/or which doctrines are necessary. Is baptism necessary? ~~Depends on who you ask.
According to your interpretation of the scriptures, that is.
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