Pope To Add New Mysteries to the Rosary

Catholic World News (Via Diocese Report) ^ | October 14, 2002 | Staff

[Loyalist]

POPE TO ADD NEW MYSTERIES TO THE ROSARY

VATICAN, Oct 16, 02 (CWNews.com) -- Pope John Paul II will release an apostolic letter on devotion to the Virgin Mary on October 16-- the anniversary of his election to the pontificate-- according to informed Vatican sources.

Leaks from the Vatican, in anticipation of the document's release, suggest that the Pope will introduce five new mysteries to the Rosary. The five new mysteries, the "luminous mysteries," will focus on the public life of Jesus Christ, Vatican sources say. They will be: the Baptism in the Jordan, the temptation in the desert, the proclamation of the Kingdom, the Transfigurations, and the entry into Jerusalem.

The Rosary is a traditional Marian devotion, popularized at first by St. Bernard, later by the Dominican order, and still later by St. Louis Marie Grignon de Montfort. The Rosary is composed of five joyful mysteries (which are recited on Mondays and Thursdays), five sorrowful mysteries (recited on Tuesdays and Saturdays), and five glorious mysteries (Wednesdays, Saturdays, and Sundays.) The five new mysteries would reportedly be used on Saturdays.

posted by Brian Barcaro 10/14/2002 08:31:16 AM

[ksen]

According to the Catechism - which is current, oficial church teaching - Mary is venerated.

The Catechism can trump the official teaching of a Pope?

[Catholicguy]

<> Back then, Worship had THREE levels of meaning. Were those meanings to prevail today, one could speak of "worshipping Mary. " But, of course, that is NOT what you folks mean.

The three levels of Worship are Dulia -worship of relics

Hyperdulia - worship of Mary

Latria - worship reserved for God alone.

It is to GOD ALONE that we give worship of adoration etc via the Holy Scarficie of the Mass

AS folks do not understand the distinctions within the traditional understanding of "worship" we no longer use that word so we will not be understood. Fat good that does us.

As Augustine pointed out in "City of God," Catholics have LONG been accused of "Worshipping" others than God. As he pointed out, PROVE IT. WE have 17 gazilliono Mass texts about, and 198 Quadragazillion folks have heard our Masses and NOT ONE TEXT HAS EVER SAID WE GIVE THE WORSHIP OF LATRIA TO MARY AND NOT ONE PERSON HAS EVER HEARD A PRIEST OFFER THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS TO MARY. IT IS OFFERED TO GOD ALONE, THROUGH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST

[ksen]

Demonstrating yet again that the words have more than one meaning and that living languages change.

So then you used to worship Mary, but now you only venerate? Why the change? This translation is on the Vatican's official website, why didn't they update the language?

[SoothingDave]

However, this translation is directly from the Vatican's own web-site. I would think that they know how to properly translate Latin into English.

Demonstrating yet again that the words have more than one meaning and that living languages change.

Kevin, how old is that document? When was it translated into English? Do the English refer to non-godly things, such as a judge, as "Your Worship?" Do words, especially words used in the past, mean what they meant then, or do they only mean what 21st Century people want them to mean?

SD

[MarthaB]

>>Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

>The last line was added. By whom I don't know.

This was discussed on another list of Catholics who are quite knowledgeable, and I learned that this line was added quite early on, and that in some parts of the early church, the Lord's Prayer was prayed with this part added. I had thought this did not come into use until the King James translation, but I was told it was in use from a fairly early date though my understanding is that it was not in the original Scripture. However, it was not a change due to the Reformation either. I looked into it a little and found some references that I did not save, so I cannot "prove" this nor does it matter a great deal to me, but that line was used in prayer from an early date, just as we now use it at Mass even though it is not in the Catholic translations of the Bible. A minor point, and actually I don't think anyone knows for certain exactly "by whom" this was done.

[SoothingDave]

Demonstrating yet again that the words have more than one meaning and that living languages change.

So then you used to worship Mary, but now you only venerate? Why the change? This translation is on the Vatican's official website, why didn't they update the language?

Kevin, you're not that dense. Or do you think the "Gay 90s" a hundred some years ago were a period of raging homosexuality?

SD

[ksen]

How would hyperdulia be translated in today's English?

[SoothingDave]

This translation is on the Vatican's official website, why didn't they update the language?

LOL. Maybe you want the job of continuously updating two millennia of documents into the major languages of the world, keeping abreast of changes in dialect and idiom. The Church has more important things to do. And if one has a question about what is meant, one can address more contemporary sources like the Catechism, or one can ask questions of the living, breathing Church.

SD

[Catholicguy]

<> VENERATE; TO REGARD WITH RESPECT, REVERENCE, OR HEARTFELT DEFERENCE. (LATIN VENERARI, FROM VENUS, LOVE) = BIBLE WONK IS A LYING BIGOT.<>

[ksen]

Dave, you were one of the ones who railed against people who said that you worshipped Mary. Then when this document(from 1909) was found you backed off and said it was ok to use the word worship with Mary.

You basically said "We worship Mary but we don't WORSHIP Mary."

[ksen]

Kevin, how old is that document?

It was written in 1909.

When was it translated into English?

I don't know, but it must have been after 1909.

What would stop the Vatican from making an up to date translation?

[Catholicguy]

<>I was taught it was a gloss appended to the text by a copying monk.<>

[eastsider]

Please read the dictionary before making these ridiculous arguments. Here are the relevant entries from the American Heritage:

NOUN: 1a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object. b. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed. 2. Ardent devotion; adoration. 3. often Worship Chiefly British Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.

TRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To honor and love as a deity. 2. To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion.

[Catholicguy]

<> It Is (used) to be ok when "worship" was understood with its distinctions explicated<>

[Catholicguy]

<> They prolly realise that even if it were painstakingly updated, explained, and explicated, it would be too easily susceptible to willful misinterpretations by nasty polemicists uninterested in truth<>

[biblewonk]

Then, what exactly is prayer? Earlier on this thread you described the Rosary as "Mary Worship." That concept seems to be gone now.

I don't see why that concept is gone. The definition of prayer is totally wrapped around who God is. How interesting is it to you as a mere human to have someone not talk to you but chant in your general direction. It is not communication at all is it? It is as if you are something other than a person who is listening to another person.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

However, this translation is directly from the Vatican's own web-site. I would think that they know how to properly translate Latin into English.

:)

BigMack

[Desdemona]

How interesting is it to you as a mere human to have someone not talk to you but chant in your general direction. It is not communication at all is it? It is as if you are something other than a person who is listening to another person.

Sort of like trying to explain Mary's place in the church to protestants...

I guess I just think of chant in a completely different context.

[ksen]

They prolly realise that even if it were painstakingly updated, explained, and explicated, it would be too easily susceptible to willful misinterpretations by nasty polemicists uninterested in truth.

Hhmm, anyone particular in mind? ;^)