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Current status of Mary [Re: Cardinal Ratzinger Does Not Foresee Approval of “Co-redemptrix”]

Posted on 10/07/2002 1:03:41 PM PDT by Polycarp

This is a decent summary from a non-Catholic source:

Current status of Mary:

Although the virgin Mary is rarely mentioned in the Bible, and although Protestant churches consider her to be a relatively minor biblical character, the Roman Catholic Church has long assigned her an elevated status. 

The Roman Catholic Church has historically taught two basic dogmas about Mary:

bullet 1. Mary is the Mother of God.
bullet 2. Perpetual Virginity: Mary was a virgin when Yeshua (Jesus) was conceived; this state continued throughout her life.

Two additional dogmas about Mary were infallibly proclaimed by two popes during the 19th and 20th centuries:

bullet 3. Immaculate Conception: Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on 1854-DEC-8. Many Roman Catholics believe that this refers to Jesus' conception circa 5 to 7 BCE. In fact, it means that Mary herself was conceived free of sin before her birth circa 20 BCE.
bullet 4. Assumption of Mary: Pope Pius XII, in his Munificentissimus Deus (1950-NOV-1), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of Heaven." That is, she was "taken up body and soul into heaven," at the time of her death. She is there "exalted as Queen of the Universe." 1

In addition, various popes and church councils have referred to Mary as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate:

bullet In ancient times:
bullet St. Antonius (circa 250 - 350): "All graces that have ever been bestowed on men, all came through Mary."
bullet St. Bernard (1090 - 1153): "[Mary is called] the gate of heaven, because no one can enter that blessed kingdom without passing through her."
bullet St. Bonaventure (1221 - 1274): "As the moon, which stands between the sun and the earth, transmits to this latter whatever it receives from the former, so does Mary pour out upon us who are in this world the heavenly graces that she receives from the divine sun of justice." 1
bullet 1750: Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, canonized as Saint Alphonsus in 1839, wrote a book "The Glories of Mary." It continues to be published today, under various church imprimaturs. Various chapters in the book are titled: "Mary our Help," "Mary our Mediatress," "Mary our Advocate," etc. 1
bullet 1935: Pope Pius XI gave the title co-redemptrix to Mary during a radio broadcast. 1
bullet Circa 1965: The Chapter 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, passed by the Vatican Council II states, in part: 
bullet "Rightly, therefore, the Fathers see Mary not merely as passively engaged by God, but as freely cooperating in the work of man’s salvation through faith and obedience. For as St. Irenaeus says, she being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert with him in their preaching ...'death through Eve, life through Mary.' This union of the mother with the son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death" 2  
bullet "Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress and Mediatrix." 3
bullet 1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." 4
bullet 1987-MAR-25: In his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, Pope John Paul II "referred to Mary as 'Mediatrix' three times, and as 'Advocate' twice." 1
bullet 1997-APR-9: During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus: "Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity...In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs." 1

Although Mary has been referred to on numerous occasions as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate, none have the force of an infallible papal declaration.

Petition drive to promote an infallible statement:

Professor Mark Miravalle of Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH, initiated a formal petition drive in 1993 during a Marian conference at that university. It asks the Pope to make infallible statement that would officially elevate Mary, the mother of Jesus, to the status of co-redeemer. More than six million signatures from 148 countries have reached the Vatican as of the end of the year 2000, asking that Pope John Paul II infallibly declare a new dogma: "That the Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus and co-operates fully with her son in the redemption of humanity." If this were done, "she would be a vastly more powerful figure, something close to the fourth member of the Holy Trinity and the primary female face through which Christians experience the divine." 3 Miravalle's petition has received support from Mother Theresa, 550 bishops, Cardinal John O'Connor and 41 other cardinals (including at least 12 cardinals in Rome). If the dogma is declared infallibly, it would pronounce Mary as "Co-Redemptrix [co-redeemer], Mediatrix [mediator] of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God." It would require all Roman Catholics to believe that:

bullet Mary is co-redemptrix with Jesus. She participates in people's redemption.
bullet Mary is mediatrix and has the power to grant all graces.
bullet Mary is the advocate for the people of God and has the authority to influence God's judgments.

If the dogma is infallibly declared, many feel that, in the words of Father Rene Laurentin, it would be the equivalent of launching "bombs" at Protestants. Father Laurentin is a French monk and the world's leading Mary scholar. He believes that: "Mary is the model of our faith but she is not divine. There is no mediation or co-redemption except in Christ. He alone is God." Raising the status of Mary would further acerbate the split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Ecumenical activity would be negatively affected. There is speculation that a schism might develop over the issue within the Roman Catholic church. There may be a renewed debate over the role of the pope's power in the church. 5,6


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; ratzinger
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To: RnMomof7; Polycarp
And you have nothing but a church built on those non self authenticating scriptures...

The argument goes like this:

1) Consider the Bible simply as a historical document.
2) Existing copies are in substantial agreement and the Bible is the most credible ancient document of that era.
3) No credible historical argument can be made that Jesus did not claim to build His Church on Peter (establishing the office of the papacy-see above) and that the gates of hell would not prevail against It. Jesus also called His Church "the pillar and foundation of truth."
4) History shows an unbroken lineage of Popes from the time of Peter –an unprecedented historical phenomenon.
5) If the Church is "the pillar and foundation of truth" then It could never have taught error, nor could it teach contradictory doctrine. In fact, the Church has never promulgated false doctrine. The Church also posesses a body of non-contradictary doctrine. Both are singular historical accomplishments.
6) The argument provides moral certainty or proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Jesus existed, Jesus is who He claimed to be, and that the Catholic Church is His Church.
7) The Catholic Church determined the canon of scripture and teaches that it is the inspired Word of God.
8) We can know with moral certainty or proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the Catholic Bible is the Word of God.

Furthermore, you have the evidence of miracles (like Lanciano) showing that Church doctrine is true and healing miracles attributed to Saints that prove that these miracles cannot be attributed to Satan ("a kingdom divided...").

361 posted on 10/08/2002 6:30:32 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: RnMomof7
It is nothing mopre than a rumor started in the 1200's

You're pathetic.

I've recently posted Ignatius' quotes from 80 years after the death of Christ proving early Christians believed in the real Presence. The Early Fathers' quotes are so numerous as to be irrefutable.

Yet you embrace conspiratorial anti-Catholic theories from anti-Catholic bigots claiming against all known early writings as well as rational thought that the doctrine of the Real Presence was created in 1200.

You're not worth debating.

(but I still like ya'.)

362 posted on 10/08/2002 6:34:25 PM PDT by Polycarp
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To: Wrigley
What books are you reading?
363 posted on 10/08/2002 6:34:38 PM PDT by restornu
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To: RnMomof7
Amen.
364 posted on 10/08/2002 6:36:02 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: Aquinasfan
Well see the whole thing falls apart because Poly does not believe the Bible is a suitable source ...with out that the rest of your arguments are meaningless..

The Mormons have a line of succession..and they say they have the keys to the kingdom ..and they agree with you that the scriptures are only correct if they are properly interpreted ..and they are led by a prophet...

How can you prove that you are correct and they are wrong?

365 posted on 10/08/2002 6:37:32 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Polycarp
I stil like you too...but you are inconsistant friend..
366 posted on 10/08/2002 6:38:24 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: restornu
Last post for the evening.

1. Rereading "Modern Times" by Paul Johnson
2. "Ghost Soldier" by Hampton Sides
367 posted on 10/08/2002 6:39:10 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: RnMomof7
There are a lot of keys!

http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=+keys&search.x=33&search.y=10
368 posted on 10/08/2002 6:47:48 PM PDT by restornu
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To: RnMomof7
How can you prove that you are correct and they are wrong?

History is quite clear. Mormonism is a sect that was founded by Joseph Smith in the 1800s. Besides, they don't even claim to have a successor to Peter as far as I know.

369 posted on 10/08/2002 6:54:57 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Aquinasfan
Mary is the Ark. Mary saves us.

Peter is the Rock. He's got the Keys.

Mormons are all direct descendents from Joseph. They have the Golden Plates.

370 posted on 10/08/2002 6:57:42 PM PDT by JesseShurun
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To: restornu; RnMomof7
So Jesus, the King of the House of David, was unaware that the vice-regent of the House of David posessed a key indicating his position of authority when He gave the "keys of the kingdom" to Peter?

(That seems implausible considering that Revelation tells us that Jesus ultimately holds the key of the House of David.)

371 posted on 10/08/2002 7:03:35 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Wrigley
What is "Ghost Soldier" about?
372 posted on 10/08/2002 7:04:13 PM PDT by restornu
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To: JesseShurun
Mary is the Ark. Mary saves us.

Peter is the Rock. He has the keys.

Mormons are direct descendents of Joseph. They have the Golden Plates.

Jesus is the manna, that only lasts a day. He is the law that was abolished. Jesus is just the cargo.

373 posted on 10/08/2002 7:05:12 PM PDT by JesseShurun
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To: Matchett-PI
No..
374 posted on 10/08/2002 7:07:15 PM PDT by Irisshlass
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To: JesseShurun
Mary is the Ark. Mary saves us.

Inasmuch as she contained our Savior, who saves us.

Peter is the Rock. He's got the Keys.

So Jesus, the King of the House of David, who ultimately posesses the key of the House of David, was unaware that the vice-regent of the House of David wore over his shoulder a key representing his office when He gave "the keys of the kingdom to Peter?

375 posted on 10/08/2002 7:10:08 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Irisshlass
"No.."

You haven't been paying attention. Or ... maybe you couldn't get past the *personalities" to see it. LOL

376 posted on 10/08/2002 7:12:10 PM PDT by Matchett-PI
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To: Aquinasfan; Matchett-PI
The Pope is The Holy Father.

Mary is the Holy Mother AND the Ark of the Covenant who saves us.

Peter is the Rock and he has the Keys.

Mormons are direct descendents of Joseph. They have the Golden Plates and the Stick of Joseph.

Jesus is manna that is only good for one day and ends the Law that wasn't working anyhow. Jesus is cargo.

Mary is amid the oaks of Bashan, her proper abode.

People who don't know Scripture won't know the time of their visitation.

The Lord is making a wedding feast and where the eagle is, there will be the corpse.

377 posted on 10/08/2002 7:19:16 PM PDT by JesseShurun
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To: JesseShurun
LOL...LOL
378 posted on 10/08/2002 7:26:18 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
The butler, the baker and the candlestick maker.
379 posted on 10/08/2002 7:27:32 PM PDT by JesseShurun
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To: Matchett-PI
You haven't been paying attention. Or ... maybe you couldn't get past the *personalities" to see it

Lets see..

You claim sola scriptura Luther's doctrine but not his devotion to Mary...so then you claim the Bible as infallible...but yet you think tradition is foolishness though the apostles said to stand firm and hold to the traditions taught by them which is in the Bible...I was speaking of Apostolic Tradition...who is not paying attention?
380 posted on 10/08/2002 7:28:39 PM PDT by Irisshlass
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