Posted on 10/07/2002 1:03:41 PM PDT by Polycarp
This is a decent summary from a non-Catholic source:
Current status of Mary:
Although the virgin Mary is rarely mentioned in the Bible, and although Protestant churches consider her to be a relatively minor biblical character, the Roman Catholic Church has long assigned her an elevated status.
The Roman Catholic Church has historically taught two basic dogmas about Mary:
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1. Mary is the Mother of God. |
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2. Perpetual Virginity: Mary was a virgin when Yeshua (Jesus) was conceived; this state continued throughout her life. |
Two additional dogmas about Mary were infallibly proclaimed by two popes during the 19th and 20th centuries:
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3. Immaculate Conception: Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on 1854-DEC-8. Many Roman Catholics believe that this refers to Jesus' conception circa 5 to 7 BCE. In fact, it means that Mary herself was conceived free of sin before her birth circa 20 BCE. |
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4. Assumption of Mary: Pope Pius XII, in his Munificentissimus Deus (1950-NOV-1), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of Heaven." That is, she was "taken up body and soul into heaven," at the time of her death. She is there "exalted as Queen of the Universe." 1 |
In addition, various popes and church councils have referred to Mary as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate:
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In ancient times:
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1750: Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, canonized as Saint Alphonsus in 1839, wrote a book "The Glories of Mary." It continues to be published today, under various church imprimaturs. Various chapters in the book are titled: "Mary our Help," "Mary our Mediatress," "Mary our Advocate," etc. 1 | ||||||
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1935: Pope Pius XI gave the title co-redemptrix to Mary during a radio broadcast. 1 | ||||||
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Circa 1965: The Chapter 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, passed by the Vatican Council II states, in part:
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1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." 4 | ||||||
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1987-MAR-25: In his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, Pope John Paul II "referred to Mary as 'Mediatrix' three times, and as 'Advocate' twice." 1 | ||||||
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1997-APR-9: During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus: "Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity...In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs." 1 |
Although Mary has been referred to on numerous occasions as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate, none have the force of an infallible papal declaration.
Professor Mark Miravalle of Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH, initiated a formal petition drive in 1993 during a Marian conference at that university. It asks the Pope to make infallible statement that would officially elevate Mary, the mother of Jesus, to the status of co-redeemer. More than six million signatures from 148 countries have reached the Vatican as of the end of the year 2000, asking that Pope John Paul II infallibly declare a new dogma: "That the Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus and co-operates fully with her son in the redemption of humanity." If this were done, "she would be a vastly more powerful figure, something close to the fourth member of the Holy Trinity and the primary female face through which Christians experience the divine." 3 Miravalle's petition has received support from Mother Theresa, 550 bishops, Cardinal John O'Connor and 41 other cardinals (including at least 12 cardinals in Rome). If the dogma is declared infallibly, it would pronounce Mary as "Co-Redemptrix [co-redeemer], Mediatrix [mediator] of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God." It would require all Roman Catholics to believe that:
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Mary is co-redemptrix with Jesus. She participates in people's redemption. |
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Mary is mediatrix and has the power to grant all graces. |
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Mary is the advocate for the people of God and has the authority to influence God's judgments. |
If the dogma is infallibly declared, many feel that, in the words of Father Rene Laurentin, it would be the equivalent of launching "bombs" at Protestants. Father Laurentin is a French monk and the world's leading Mary scholar. He believes that: "Mary is the model of our faith but she is not divine. There is no mediation or co-redemption except in Christ. He alone is God." Raising the status of Mary would further acerbate the split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Ecumenical activity would be negatively affected. There is speculation that a schism might develop over the issue within the Roman Catholic church. There may be a renewed debate over the role of the pope's power in the church. 5,6
The argument goes like this:
1) Consider the Bible simply as a historical document.
2) Existing copies are in substantial agreement and the Bible is the most credible ancient document of that era.
3) No credible historical argument can be made that Jesus did not claim to build His Church on Peter (establishing the office of the papacy-see above) and that the gates of hell would not prevail against It. Jesus also called His Church "the pillar and foundation of truth."
4) History shows an unbroken lineage of Popes from the time of Peter –an unprecedented historical phenomenon.
5) If the Church is "the pillar and foundation of truth" then It could never have taught error, nor could it teach contradictory doctrine. In fact, the Church has never promulgated false doctrine. The Church also posesses a body of non-contradictary doctrine. Both are singular historical accomplishments.
6) The argument provides moral certainty or proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Jesus existed, Jesus is who He claimed to be, and that the Catholic Church is His Church.
7) The Catholic Church determined the canon of scripture and teaches that it is the inspired Word of God.
8) We can know with moral certainty or proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the Catholic Bible is the Word of God.
Furthermore, you have the evidence of miracles (like Lanciano) showing that Church doctrine is true and healing miracles attributed to Saints that prove that these miracles cannot be attributed to Satan ("a kingdom divided...").
You're pathetic.
I've recently posted Ignatius' quotes from 80 years after the death of Christ proving early Christians believed in the real Presence. The Early Fathers' quotes are so numerous as to be irrefutable.
Yet you embrace conspiratorial anti-Catholic theories from anti-Catholic bigots claiming against all known early writings as well as rational thought that the doctrine of the Real Presence was created in 1200.
You're not worth debating.
(but I still like ya'.)
The Mormons have a line of succession..and they say they have the keys to the kingdom ..and they agree with you that the scriptures are only correct if they are properly interpreted ..and they are led by a prophet...
How can you prove that you are correct and they are wrong?
History is quite clear. Mormonism is a sect that was founded by Joseph Smith in the 1800s. Besides, they don't even claim to have a successor to Peter as far as I know.
Peter is the Rock. He's got the Keys.
Mormons are all direct descendents from Joseph. They have the Golden Plates.
(That seems implausible considering that Revelation tells us that Jesus ultimately holds the key of the House of David.)
Peter is the Rock. He has the keys.
Mormons are direct descendents of Joseph. They have the Golden Plates.
Jesus is the manna, that only lasts a day. He is the law that was abolished. Jesus is just the cargo.
Inasmuch as she contained our Savior, who saves us.
Peter is the Rock. He's got the Keys.
So Jesus, the King of the House of David, who ultimately posesses the key of the House of David, was unaware that the vice-regent of the House of David wore over his shoulder a key representing his office when He gave "the keys of the kingdom to Peter?
You haven't been paying attention. Or ... maybe you couldn't get past the *personalities" to see it. LOL
Mary is the Holy Mother AND the Ark of the Covenant who saves us.
Peter is the Rock and he has the Keys.
Mormons are direct descendents of Joseph. They have the Golden Plates and the Stick of Joseph.
Jesus is manna that is only good for one day and ends the Law that wasn't working anyhow. Jesus is cargo.
Mary is amid the oaks of Bashan, her proper abode.
People who don't know Scripture won't know the time of their visitation.
The Lord is making a wedding feast and where the eagle is, there will be the corpse.
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