Current status of Mary [Re: Cardinal Ratzinger Does Not Foresee Approval of “Co-redemptrix”]

[Polycarp]

This is a decent summary from a non-Catholic source:

Current status of Mary:

Although the virgin Mary is rarely mentioned in the Bible, and although Protestant churches consider her to be a relatively minor biblical character, the Roman Catholic Church has long assigned her an elevated status. 

The Roman Catholic Church has historically taught two basic dogmas about Mary:

	1. Mary is the Mother of God.
	2. Perpetual Virginity: Mary was a virgin when Yeshua (Jesus) was conceived; this state continued throughout her life.

Two additional dogmas about Mary were infallibly proclaimed by two popes during the 19^th and 20^th centuries:

	3. Immaculate Conception: Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on 1854-DEC-8. Many Roman Catholics believe that this refers to Jesus' conception circa 5 to 7 BCE. In fact, it means that Mary herself was conceived free of sin before her birth circa 20 BCE.
	4. Assumption of Mary: Pope Pius XII, in his Munificentissimus Deus (1950-NOV-1), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of Heaven." That is, she was "taken up body and soul into heaven," at the time of her death. She is there "exalted as Queen of the Universe." 1

In addition, various popes and church councils have referred to Mary as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate:

In ancient times:

	St. Antonius (circa 250 - 350): "All graces that have ever been bestowed on men, all came through Mary."
	St. Bernard (1090 - 1153): "[Mary is called] the gate of heaven, because no one can enter that blessed kingdom without passing through her."
	St. Bonaventure (1221 - 1274): "As the moon, which stands between the sun and the earth, transmits to this latter whatever it receives from the former, so does Mary pour out upon us who are in this world the heavenly graces that she receives from the divine sun of justice." 1

1750: Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, canonized as Saint Alphonsus in 1839, wrote a book "The Glories of Mary." It continues to be published today, under various church imprimaturs. Various chapters in the book are titled: "Mary our Help," "Mary our Mediatress," "Mary our Advocate," etc. ₁

1935: Pope Pius XI gave the title co-redemptrix to Mary during a radio broadcast. ₁

Circa 1965: The Chapter 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, passed by the Vatican Council II states, in part: 

"Rightly, therefore, the Fathers see Mary not merely as passively engaged by God, but as freely cooperating in the work of man’s salvation through faith and obedience. For as St. Irenaeus says, she being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert with him in their preaching ...'death through Eve, life through Mary.' This union of the mother with the son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death" 2

"Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress and Mediatrix." 3

1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." ₄

1987-MAR-25: In his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, Pope John Paul II "referred to Mary as 'Mediatrix' three times, and as 'Advocate' twice." ₁

1997-APR-9: During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus: "Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity...In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs." ₁

Although Mary has been referred to on numerous occasions as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate, none have the force of an infallible papal declaration.

Petition drive to promote an infallible statement:

Professor Mark Miravalle of Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH, initiated a formal petition drive in 1993 during a Marian conference at that university. It asks the Pope to make infallible statement that would officially elevate Mary, the mother of Jesus, to the status of co-redeemer. More than six million signatures from 148 countries have reached the Vatican as of the end of the year 2000, asking that Pope John Paul II infallibly declare a new dogma: "That the Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus and co-operates fully with her son in the redemption of humanity." If this were done, "she would be a vastly more powerful figure, something close to the fourth member of the Holy Trinity and the primary female face through which Christians experience the divine." ₃ Miravalle's petition has received support from Mother Theresa, 550 bishops, Cardinal John O'Connor and 41 other cardinals (including at least 12 cardinals in Rome). If the dogma is declared infallibly, it would pronounce Mary as "Co-Redemptrix [co-redeemer], Mediatrix [mediator] of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God." It would require all Roman Catholics to believe that:

	Mary is co-redemptrix with Jesus. She participates in people's redemption.
	Mary is mediatrix and has the power to grant all graces.
	Mary is the advocate for the people of God and has the authority to influence God's judgments.

If the dogma is infallibly declared, many feel that, in the words of Father Rene Laurentin, it would be the equivalent of launching "bombs" at Protestants. Father Laurentin is a French monk and the world's leading Mary scholar. He believes that: "Mary is the model of our faith but she is not divine. There is no mediation or co-redemption except in Christ. He alone is God." Raising the status of Mary would further acerbate the split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Ecumenical activity would be negatively affected. There is speculation that a schism might develop over the issue within the Roman Catholic church. There may be a renewed debate over the role of the pope's power in the church. _5,6

[RnMomof7]

Gee, I go off to work this morning and miss all the fun

Ya need to retire or get a computer job:>)

[RnMomof7]

Why did Jesus need to clothe Himself in humanity to carry out our redemption?

Different question than the one I asked and non responsive?

Scripture clearly answers the why of the humanity of Jesus..It says nothing on Mary except she knew she was a sinner in need of a savior

[theAmbassador]

Calvin is the [creator] of egregious and hateful doctrine.

Mary is the [creator] of God, Theotokos.

***

What an interesting analogy Catholicguy!

[JesseShurun]

Ye, nothing like going to the prophets for sound doctrine. There are all sorts of nuggets in the OT. I'll find you some more.

[RnMomof7]

How do you think the saints know you want them to pray for you?

[drstevej]

**Didn't a lot of Calvinists graduate from there?***

No doubt you're thinking of the Apostle Paul! :0)

[Polycarp]

How do you think St.Francis knows you want him to pray for you?

In Heaven there are no bodies yet, only souls, right?

How do body-less souls communicate?

With their ears? Their physical brains and mouths? No, they won't have them till after the Resurrection.

Do the saints in Heaven speak to each other, the angels, and the Most Holy Trinity?

So how do souls communicate? From soul to soul by some method that eye has not yet seen and ear has not yet heard.

However, that faculty of the soul was given man at creation, and we have it now here on earth, and shall retain it (obviously) in Heaven.

Personally I think those body-less souls communicate just as our souls here on earth communicate with God, through an act of the will, in a form of prayer.

Where does the ability to pray come from? That too, here and in Heaven, is a gift of God.

In Heaven all those body-less souls participate in the Beatific Vision.

How do they "see" God if they have no bodies?

Its a mystery, but probably much the same way God speaks to our souls, which does not involve physical senses.

Furthermore, only matter, our physical being, exists in space and time.

Those souls in Heaven exist outside space and time. They exist in a timeless Eternity.

So they have FOREVER to "hear" the prayers of the faithful on earth.

And they "hear" them simply because God hears those prayers of the faithful on earth, and the saints are participating in the Beatific Vision.

Yes, its a mystery to us, as scripture says eye has not seen what God has waiting.

The Communion of Saints ain't that difficult to grasp.

[RnMomof7]

The problem is Scott has forgotten more than I will ever know..so the lie had to be intentional.,..I have read this is one of his own personal little doctrines and one that led to some mumblings among the scripitual knowledgable Presbyterians he was pastoring...perhaps he has simply found a home for his pet doctrine among the Biblically illiterate  

Here is the link...now think about this ..The JW's only changed ONE word in the Bible and that one word strips Jesus of His divinity..words do mean things

[RnMomof7]

Nice try ..but even the Arminians know that Caivinist do not pray to Calvin...BTW Many of us have never even read calvin.."Calvinism " is a nick name for the faith of Augustine, Luther , and Calvin.. better called the doctrines of grace..

Mary was a sweet and holy lady who is god to many...God is not happy about that , he does not share His glory

Isa 42:8 I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Think on this CG

[RnMomof7]

BUT How do they KNOW you want them to pray for you?

[drstevej]

***Calvinists have made Calvin a God. ***

Name one who has and document the claim.

[RnMomof7]

We are told to pray for one and other..not pray to one and other. So when you are in your prayer closet alone why spend THAT time with others instead of the one that IS the mediator....

[RnMomof7]

BUT how do THEY know you want them to pray for you?

[TotusTuus]

How do you know he is God?

By the theological virtue of Divine Faith! This is a supernatural Gift of God which no human being can obtain on his/her own. Since the Grace of God builds on the order of nature which He Created, Faith in no way contradicts nature, but rather, builds on it leading to the Infinite where it transcends nature. It is, first and foremost, a gratuitous work of God. But God invites us to freely respond to it by accepting His Grace, i.e. the Life of God in us, in order to continuously grow with His Divine Life in us. This is a result of our free will given to us by God, Who will not force it. In other words, Heaven can and should begin here and now on earth in us, both corporately (the Church) and individually, but we will only experience it's fullness at the "close of the ages" when we see God "face to face" and all Creation is consummated and brought to the Eternal Father by His Son. Individually, this could mean at our death, but the hereafter is still a mystery to us and I don't think any of us know all the details. I mean by this that we will have a share in God's Eternity and concepts of "time" and "space" in such a situation would obviously be much different than our experience of them in our "life of the flesh".

I cannot judge other people, only pray for them and open myself to God to allow Him to work through me to bring others to the Faith. Because it is a lifelong process, no one knows just how or when the Grace of God will work in them to bring them to Grace, or whether or not they will accept that Grace.

[Desdemona]

Polycarp says it fairly well in 289.

It's a matter of faith and trust - and a mystery.

[RnMomof7]

Here's the problem sandy..you are attributing the character of God to the saints..you are assuming that they are omnipresent and omniscient..

You make the assumption if a hundred people all over the world are saying a rosery at the exact same time Mary can hear every single one of them and respond to every single one of them..Neither she nor any saint can do that ..those are the unique gualities of God. And He will not share those with anyone

Scripture tells us our purpose is to know love and serve God in this world in the next..When you read Revelation the picture is of all Gods creation worshiping at the throne.. not sitting by a "hotline" waiting for incoming calls:>))

[RnMomof7]

***And the smoke of the incense, {which came} with the prayers of the saints, **

Misreading of scripture Tom..you are reading your doctrine into it..not deriving your doctrine from it

Rom 16:15 Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.

2Cr 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

2Cr 13:13 All the saints salute you.

Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Phl 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Phl 4:22 All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar's household.

Col 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love [which ye have] to all the saints,

Hbr 13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

Psa 16:3 [But] to the saints that [are] in the earth, and [to] the excellent, in whom [is] all my delight.

Psa 31:23 O love the LORD, all ye his saints: [for] the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.

Psa 89:7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all [them that are] about him.

Psa 148:14 He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; [even] of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the LORD.

Act 9:32 And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all [quarters], he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Cr 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Cr 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Phm 1:5 Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


Clearly scripitually all living believers are saints and that was the usage of the word..

[RnMomof7]

Nice job for a mom. I did that kind of thing for a while when my kids were small