Posted on 10/07/2002 1:03:41 PM PDT by Polycarp
This is a decent summary from a non-Catholic source:
Current status of Mary:
Although the virgin Mary is rarely mentioned in the Bible, and although Protestant churches consider her to be a relatively minor biblical character, the Roman Catholic Church has long assigned her an elevated status.
The Roman Catholic Church has historically taught two basic dogmas about Mary:
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1. Mary is the Mother of God. |
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2. Perpetual Virginity: Mary was a virgin when Yeshua (Jesus) was conceived; this state continued throughout her life. |
Two additional dogmas about Mary were infallibly proclaimed by two popes during the 19th and 20th centuries:
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3. Immaculate Conception: Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on 1854-DEC-8. Many Roman Catholics believe that this refers to Jesus' conception circa 5 to 7 BCE. In fact, it means that Mary herself was conceived free of sin before her birth circa 20 BCE. |
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4. Assumption of Mary: Pope Pius XII, in his Munificentissimus Deus (1950-NOV-1), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of Heaven." That is, she was "taken up body and soul into heaven," at the time of her death. She is there "exalted as Queen of the Universe." 1 |
In addition, various popes and church councils have referred to Mary as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate:
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In ancient times:
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1750: Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, canonized as Saint Alphonsus in 1839, wrote a book "The Glories of Mary." It continues to be published today, under various church imprimaturs. Various chapters in the book are titled: "Mary our Help," "Mary our Mediatress," "Mary our Advocate," etc. 1 | ||||||
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1935: Pope Pius XI gave the title co-redemptrix to Mary during a radio broadcast. 1 | ||||||
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Circa 1965: The Chapter 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, passed by the Vatican Council II states, in part:
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1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." 4 | ||||||
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1987-MAR-25: In his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, Pope John Paul II "referred to Mary as 'Mediatrix' three times, and as 'Advocate' twice." 1 | ||||||
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1997-APR-9: During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus: "Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity...In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs." 1 |
Although Mary has been referred to on numerous occasions as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate, none have the force of an infallible papal declaration.
Professor Mark Miravalle of Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH, initiated a formal petition drive in 1993 during a Marian conference at that university. It asks the Pope to make infallible statement that would officially elevate Mary, the mother of Jesus, to the status of co-redeemer. More than six million signatures from 148 countries have reached the Vatican as of the end of the year 2000, asking that Pope John Paul II infallibly declare a new dogma: "That the Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus and co-operates fully with her son in the redemption of humanity." If this were done, "she would be a vastly more powerful figure, something close to the fourth member of the Holy Trinity and the primary female face through which Christians experience the divine." 3 Miravalle's petition has received support from Mother Theresa, 550 bishops, Cardinal John O'Connor and 41 other cardinals (including at least 12 cardinals in Rome). If the dogma is declared infallibly, it would pronounce Mary as "Co-Redemptrix [co-redeemer], Mediatrix [mediator] of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God." It would require all Roman Catholics to believe that:
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Mary is co-redemptrix with Jesus. She participates in people's redemption. |
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Mary is mediatrix and has the power to grant all graces. |
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Mary is the advocate for the people of God and has the authority to influence God's judgments. |
If the dogma is infallibly declared, many feel that, in the words of Father Rene Laurentin, it would be the equivalent of launching "bombs" at Protestants. Father Laurentin is a French monk and the world's leading Mary scholar. He believes that: "Mary is the model of our faith but she is not divine. There is no mediation or co-redemption except in Christ. He alone is God." Raising the status of Mary would further acerbate the split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Ecumenical activity would be negatively affected. There is speculation that a schism might develop over the issue within the Roman Catholic church. There may be a renewed debate over the role of the pope's power in the church. 5,6
Simply Divine! ;^)
But Mary had free choice right ..what if she had said NO??
More to the point...Why did Jesus need a sinless mother to carry His humanity?
He chose to be born in a filthy stable. If it was necessary to escape sinful man he could have just assumed a human body and come on the scene as a man..But He chose to be subject to all the experiences and temptations of man...He walked filthy roads and had fellowship with sinful men
Mary said she needed a savior..she knew the scriptures why would she say she was sinless
BTW this is an insignificant doctrine to me..only significant because a cult of Mary worship has grown around it...She is being made a god..
Why did Jesus need to clothe Himself in humanity to carry out our redemption?
Didn't a lot of Calvinists graduate from there?
Just Teasing! ;^)
What do you do with the scripture that says Jesus was sent to be the only mediator between God and man?
I have heard it compared to you asking me for prayer..but in reality that is far different.,.you know I am here..you only have on faith that the others you pray to are even in heaven.(with the exception of Mary of course) Why ask a dead saint to pray for you when you could ask a living person to pray for you?
I think you misunderstood my meaning. See my explanation to CG.
If you can believe that God placed a fertilized embryo in Mary's womb without using any of her genetic material, why can't you believe that God preserved Mary from original sin?
Because there is a prior scriptural example of a human being coming from something other than human procreation, namely Adam. There is however, no accounting for a suspension of original sin in any human being (resulting from procreation between two human beings) anywhere else in Scripture.
If God can just selectively suspend original sin in humans, why send His Son to die?
Now if pointing out deception is "unchristian" then so be it
This is a learned and highly intelligent man and when he gives of himself to share his love of Scripture with others, I am not surprised to see Rnmom claim his real intent is to "get attention," and he is a mere "token convert," instead of giivng him his just due.
And there in lays the BIG problem it had to be INTENTIONAL because he is well trained...BTW so were the religious leaders that Jesus called vipers
<> It isn't the sole reason. It is arguing from analogy though. <>
<> Essentially, that is ignorance masquerading as scholarship. The Immaculate Conception does NOT refer to how Jesus took on Human Nature.<> The human nature of Jesus Christ is the very heart of the matter of the Immaculate Conception, CG.
<> Sorry, you are mixing up ALL the consequences of Original Sin Vs THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION which is a specific issue. <>
If not for Original Sin and its effect on ALL humanity from Adam down, the virgin birth would not be necessary. My comparison to mythology had to do with the notion of gods and mortals contributing genetically and procreatively to an offspring, usually with the result of extra-human or god-like characteristics. The Immaculate Conception is the Roman answer to the problem of Jesus being fully human without being tainted by Original Sin.
<> Apples and Kumquats.<>
<> The Catholic Church teaches with the authority of Christ. Reject the Teachings of the Pillar and Ground of Truth and you reject Jesus.<> And that's the heart of the debate. All debate between Catholics and Protestants over doctrine inevitably comes back to this point. The RCC claims that it is the sole representative of Christ on Earth, and that by rejecting it or its teachings you are somehow rejecting Christ Himself. We can argue about the Immaculate Conception all the live-long day, but when it comes down to it you appeal to an authority I don't recognize (the RCC, not Jesus) and the authority I appeal to (the Word of God) is only accepted by you as filtered through the RCC. Makes sense to me. That whcih you argue about, Catholics wrote. The author of the text know more'n you? <>
One of us needs their eyes opened. I pray that happens regardless of who it is:)
<> Scott Hahn long proceeded you. :)<> 235 posted on 10/8/02 3:46 PM Eastern by Frumanchu
I do believe Scott Hahn. He has forgotten far more about the Bible that you shall ever know. <>
Catholics aren't required to limit themselves to only Scripture when that itself is not Scripture.<>
Mary is the Mother of God, Theotokos. Calvin is the Mother of egregious and hateful doctrine.
Mary wins<>
What I want to know is this? "How exactly does St Francis come to know that Sandyeggo wants Francis to pray for SPECIFICALLY her by name?" That is, what is the process by which Francis gains the knowledge?
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